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Post by Pharmer Phil on Feb 18, 2005 5:49:27 GMT -6
Acquiring Ammendments, Or Beyond the Leaf Pile! In some areas it is Easy to obtain Organic or natural soil ammendments and fertilizers, In Other areas, smaller towns, Areas not yet familiar with Organics" Ahem....Steele County, Mn.....Ahem" So, This means a long drive, Spend alot of money,Or.. stay at home and forage on my own! Some of these can be purchased in farm stores, grocery stores, etc. Some, You may already Have! So I've Made up a Shopping list, Or What I would rather think of as a Treasure Hunt!Are there Other Items Not ListedYESSome are: wood ash, blood meal, Gluten based products, etc. I have not included them here because they, in my personal feelings, require that you : Already have the soil test in hand. These should be used with Knowledge of your soils NPK and Ph. or They may inhibit your plants growth, Possibly negatively I use them, But I Know what my garden's level of nutrients, organic material, and Ph Are. Most of these Can be used in a brew,(aerobic) Used in your compost, placed in or around the plants root zone, most can even be applied to the foilage, applied as Spring/fall ammendments and worked into the soil. They All get the same thing done, They feed the Soil, the Microbes in your soil, and help break down organic material, that will In turn Feed You! Animal Manure: High in Nitrogen,good P and K Content and soil microbes. Use only vegetarian animal manures!, cattle,horse,goat,Rabbit, etc, Chickens aren't vegetarians; However, chicken manure is safe, The 'non-vegetarian' munchies that chickens consume, are easily broken down by composting. NEVER USE ANY PET DOG OR CAT DroppingsLiquid molasses,(the kind found in the equarian section of the feed store), corn syrup, Your friends the MICROBES need a lil treat once and a while! For use in compost teas. Sugars I add to my compost tea where it breaks down rapidly , the microbes already getting there Fix! I make sure my 'tea' brews for about 3 days. Too much sugar added on soil straight, may cause a temporary nitrogen deficiency in the soil. Molasses also contains sulfur which acts as a mild natural fungicide. Alfalfa meal - Go buy a 50# bag of Rabbit food or alfalfa hay, rotted is BESTORPet Litter or bedding (only 100% Alfalfa) Alfalfa products are best used in teas, mulches, or as topdressings. Alfalfa is an excellent natural complete fertilizer, containing great amounts of NPK,growth hormones and micronutrients.Even Pet Food, although I have never used kibbles and Bits, some folks do! But of Course there are Pholks who "PEE" in their Compost!There are all types of Gardeners out there, I respect them All,Their Knowledge, ideas, and practices, I Love The DIVERSITY! Over the Years All Gardeners Have Always Had The One "Best TOOL".... Imagination Grass Clippings: Excellent source of organic Nitrogen! for special foliar teas or use as a mulch/top dressing. I add Different grasses and WeedsYes...weeds! Stinging nettle and Equisetum grow in abundance arouund here, they both are excellent additives to your aerobic brew. And That is the essence of what I trying to say here, Use What is Available, What you can find locally.
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Post by jeanette on Feb 18, 2005 7:36:36 GMT -6
i put all my ash from my came fires on my garden.. accually i haven't fertilized yet.. this year i'm going to.
also i always plant my tomatoes in the spot my beans were in the previous year, for the nitrigon the beans add to the soil...
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Post by YB on Mar 6, 2005 16:22:29 GMT -6
Interesting you should say that Jeanette, I thought 'maters were not that excited about nitrogen?
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Post by hunter63 on Mar 7, 2005 9:29:57 GMT -6
FYI, Had a conversion w/ a guy yesterday, was telling me that the local Starbucks gives away the grounds for use in the garden. Have to check it out when I go past there. I have used cold coffee in the past for house plants, seem to make them grow pretty well.
Also the local city has a compost area, you can bring your own container and it's free.( don't know what they make it out of though). I not sewage sludge, that they sell in bags.
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Post by jeanette on Mar 7, 2005 12:55:52 GMT -6
tomatoes will deplete your ground of nitrigen... coffee grounds are very good for your plants.
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Post by Laura on Mar 7, 2005 13:08:50 GMT -6
All of our coffee ground's go out to the garden. & we have LOT'S of them.
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Post by seadog on Mar 8, 2005 10:36:28 GMT -6
Our soils tend to be a little alkaline so coffee grounds are great. The worms love em. I'm lucky enough to have a friend who owns an espresso shop.
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Post by douglas on Apr 19, 2005 9:33:16 GMT -6
I do know this that tomatoes will lap nitrigen up fast............used alittle blood meal and they grew almost up to my shoulders in a short time but also made it hard to reach the maters because of the growth with suckers everywhere Squinting
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Post by Strongtower on May 29, 2005 21:53:22 GMT -6
A quick (maybe goofy) question...Does it matter if the coffe grounds are the "gormet" type coffees?? I had asked for some of the grounds from work, but then had a twinge of doubt since they are "flavored" with something... And can you ever have too many coffe grounds in the garden?? ( It leaches out right ?)
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Post by Pharmer Phil on Jun 6, 2005 4:15:44 GMT -6
It would be really hard to get too many, as far as the flavored...I can't say?
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Post by douglas on Jun 20, 2005 7:50:56 GMT -6
May have to ask the matters what they like best
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Post by Compost Pharmer on Jun 20, 2005 16:22:29 GMT -6
I asked my 'matters and they said they don't really care. One 'matter said that "coffe grounds is coffe grounds"
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Post by Songbird on Jun 24, 2005 14:08:56 GMT -6
Am I correct in assuming that because we live in an area where there's a lot of limestone, that my soil is primarily alkaline? This means add nitrogen...right?
Can you kill beans by adding nItrogen?
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Debi
Junior Member
Posts: 7
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Post by Debi on Aug 13, 2005 15:12:06 GMT -6
We have a wood burner to heat the house, is that ash any use to me in the garden? It's all differant types of wood as we take whatever is available for free.
Debi
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Post by Pharmer Phil on Aug 14, 2005 6:36:53 GMT -6
Debi, I will answer this like this: Usually...As long as the ash is from natural woods, no treated lumber, old railroad ties, or composite woods,(particle board, OSB, plywood) And added in small amounts, Wood ash acts on the soil much like limestone in that it raises the pH or alkalinity of the soil. unlike limestone, which can take six months or more to take effect, wood ash has high water solubility and quickly changes the soil pH. This can cause a problem with raising the soil pH over the optimum level of 6.5 to 7.0 If we spread too many ashes in the same area. A soil pH over the optimum level can affect plants as adversely as a pH that is too low. High pH will limit the uptake of important soil nutrients needed by the plant such as phosphorous, iron, and magnesium. A safe rate of wood ash application for a garden or lawn area would be twenty pounds per thousand square feet or a five-gallon pail full of wood ash. Twenty pounds of wood ash is equivalent to six pounds of ground limestone per thousand square feet. If the soil is in the proper pH range, this rate of application is considered appropriate for yearly treatments. After wood ash application, you should need no additional lime, with nitrogen and possibly phosphorous being the other plant nutrient requirements. The wood application will also supply potassium. Mix the application of wood ash to the garden soil well.
There are always questions concerning Ph, alkalimity, acidic soils, I will try a board here that will explain all this possibly, in laymans terms!
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Post by charger on Dec 14, 2005 6:43:11 GMT -6
Am I correct in assuming that because we live in an area where there's a lot of limestone, that my soil is primarily alkaline? This means add nitrogen...right? Can you kill beans by adding nItrogen? About the limestone. Not neccissarily so. Where I live, there is solid limestone usually less than 10 feet below the surface. Limestone rocks work their way to the surface. Also, you'll find a good many limestone "out-croppings" around here. Our soils are VERY acidic. That's the end result of a couple factors (second is caused by the first) Our soil is mostly red clay. It doesn't drain well in rainy weather. Clay soils tend to be acidic. WET soils tend to leach out the alkalinity gained by application of lime. The "good news/bad news" aspect is, even with the tendency towards low PH, there is an ample supply of ag lime with all the limestone quarries in the area. That said, I try my very best to stay away from limestone (ag lime) on my garden. (I use wood ash. With a fireplace in the house, and a wood stove in the shop, I NEVER run low on ash) Kentucky is known as "The Bluegrass State". Ironically, that comes from a very small area of Kentucky, in and around the Lexington area (Central to East Central portion of the state.) The grass takes on a slightly "blue" hue from the abundance of lime in the soil. They don't have the acidic soils the rest of the state shares. (Also, "Bluegrass" tends to be difficult at best to grow in the hot, sometimes dry climate of Kentucky summers. True Bluegrass is grown (for seed) in the Pacific Northwest, in cooler climate.
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Post by chickenfarmer on Jan 14, 2006 21:40:18 GMT -6
Can I put my two cents in here. My wife bought me a paper shredder for christmas. I love it. We get newspapers that are printed with soy ink. We shred these and put them into our compost pile. They break down pretty easily being shredded. Also A chicken farmer without eggs is no chicken Farmer, so after breakfast we have plenty of eggshells, we add these to the compost too. I beleive our Roses fell in love with the bannana peels I keep putting around them. The best compost that you can have is free compost. I always thought it was silly to buy dirt when you can easily make it . So the next time you see your neighbor raking the leaves up in his yard, Volunteer to haul them off for him.. He he ! Thanks and ok bye...... 8-)Chicken Farmer
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Post by Compost Pharmer on Jan 15, 2006 6:00:51 GMT -6
I agree. I grab all the 'free' leaves I can get as well. Them along with 'organic' grass clppings make great compost. The best part is that I spent very little on it.
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Post by kabuti on Jan 17, 2006 21:28:19 GMT -6
I have been using 'compost' from a stable down the road I try to get into the pile where it has decomposed but usually it is only about 1/2 broken down it contains wood shavings. should I add nitrogen such as grass clippings as I mix it into the beds to help break it down? What would you suggest? Thanks!
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Post by Pharmer Phil on Jan 18, 2006 5:08:24 GMT -6
A couple things that come to mind are the question of how Broken down it is, are there still visible 'apples' in the manure? The ability of horse manure to break down is lessened by the un-even distribution of nitrogen in the manure. What is the appearance of the manure? does it still resemble manure, or does it look like rich soil, with some wood shavings. I, at this early hour, can't remember where you are located Kabuti, do you have some time before you use the manure? If so, I would add some grass clippings, some blood meal, and a small amount of bone meal and dampen the mix, till a handful when squeezed, is wet, but does not drip. Now, you Could use a garden hose, or a bucket to dampen the pile, and You could use...PLAIN WATER; however, I would suggest, you go to the nearest farm store and purchase a gallon of Feed Grade Molasses! Mix a quarter cup, per gallon of (warm)water and dampen your pile with this..I will Guarantee, it is like: Pouring GASOLINE on a FIRE when it comes to breaking down organic matter. Now, you could make a pile, use a plastic trash can, even black plastic bags, but I prefer the pile, or bin approach.
Which ever, cover it up and expose to the sun to build up the heat, turn it every couple days,
Your manure, if unrecognizable as manure, is probably either good to go, or a month to two using the idea above will render it that way.
A statement that SHOCKS many I speak with is: Compost is not Fertilizer You are doing more feeding of the soil, than you are your plants! Feeding those wonderful lil Microbes, that feed your plants. Compost is generally lacking in Phosphorous, hence the statement above to add some bone meal to your pile. The blood meal, and grass clipping, along with the manure should break the shavings down quickly, as they are most likely fairly well composted. Alternatively, go ahead and use your manure as is, and side dress with Blood meal, grass clippings and bone meal.
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Post by Pharmer Phil on Jan 18, 2006 5:18:40 GMT -6
A quick note to All members and Guests: My gardening advice, is by No Means the Gospel only what I have found from my experience, and of course some book learnin' in those fancy classrooms! Again I point out the paragraph in the first post: So please, differing opinions are Welcome and Appreciated!
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Post by Compost Pharmer on Jan 18, 2006 12:36:19 GMT -6
Thanks Phil. Yes we do support them all, but the best is still organics. I believe in diversity and not a mono culture. It doesn't bother me one bit if my lawn consists of grass and weeds. They all grow together. Something, even weeds, covering the soil is better then bare soil. I was taught to cover all bare soil with something, even if it is mulch.
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Post by charger on Jan 19, 2006 5:20:03 GMT -6
A quick note to All members and Guests: My gardening advice, is by No Means the Gospel only what I have found from my experience, and of course some book learnin' in those fancy classrooms! Again I point out the paragraph in the first post: So please, differing opinions are Welcome and Appreciated! My dad always said the right way to do something is to do it the way it works right for you. Gardening is a perfect example of that. Sometimes it's best to forget conventional wisdom and go with some "outside the box" thinking. (And yes, that's backfired on me a few times too) Every growing season is different. Soils are different from location to location. No one "idea" is correct for every garden. Every great new idea came about when someone said "What if....."?
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Post by kabuti on Jan 22, 2006 20:55:45 GMT -6
Hi, the manure is not recognizable as such however, the shavings are, somewhat. That was my real concern. I figured since ity would be mixed into the soil by the time I planted this spring it would be broken down enough. I have been planting rye cover right away & that all looks good where the soil was good to start with so I fig. the veggies should follow suit. I'm definately getting molasses. Central CA
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crazy1
Junior Member
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Post by crazy1 on Jan 28, 2006 13:16:59 GMT -6
I use my wood ashes(mostly hardwoods) in my garden, mostly where my potatoes will be. I always grow alot of them. The lye in the wood ash ,which is tilled in, keeps underground pests (grubs) away.
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Post by deb65802 on Feb 22, 2006 18:01:58 GMT -6
I have always been told that to have great garden first you feed the soil, which will feed the plants, in turn will feed you. Put the soild first and everything else falls into place.
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Post by notherdigger on May 21, 2006 1:07:49 GMT -6
I am partial to the leaves and grass clippings but I have had trouble breaking it down fast enough, I am glad to learn about the molasses and I understand how it works as good soil is truly alive. A few years ago while composting in a rolling barrel, I added some chemical nitrogen to kick it up and it rotted the composter out by summer's end. Scary thinking what its doing to people.
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crazy1
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Post by crazy1 on May 21, 2006 5:38:18 GMT -6
northerdigger, you can also use the molasses in your compost pile, drum, or whatever style you use. It will help to heat it up and feed the microbes in there. Greg told me this and it works like magic! Good Luck with all you do!
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crazy1
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Post by crazy1 on May 29, 2006 5:43:01 GMT -6
STRAW!!!!!! Yes straw, I've used it fer years. Yesterday mornin' after a good watering I took 10 bales oph straw (got em from my neighbor phor phree) that were soaked!!! Weighed 120# plus each one, some alreay rotting inside I put the straw down around all my veggie rows, Holds in the moisture, and gets the worms to hang out right around the plants! Then in the fall I till it all in. It has done a great job loosening up the hard ground and helps to hold moisture in the ground the next year. It organicaly builds your soil with little or no work on your end! Good Luck to all the phamily in their gardens this year And the guests as well!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2006 20:26:43 GMT -6
I am lucky enough to have a nearby source of free composted manure (the National Fairgrounds), they even load it with a front end loader! Also, closer to home is a place where I can get truckloads of horse manure, also loaded free! Since this part of Georgia was once under the ocean (and our property was the BEACH!), we need all the soil amendments we can get. We compost all the kitchen scraps, coffee grounds, teabags, etc. When the bucket gets full, a hole gets dug and in it goes. I prefer to not use any chemical fertilizers. We just bought this place, and will not have our first veggie garden until next year. I figure by then we should have some pretty decent soil.
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