Organic Culture

[Pharmer Phil]

The best Garden preperation Starts the preceeding summer/fall.
This by No means eliminates the chance for a Beautiful, productive garden this coming season. Now Phorum Phamily, I am going to tell you ...What I know and have practiced, over the years.I would like; of course, to Preach Organic...But I honor and respect everyones choice of how to garden, and realize that many, garden successfully, using chemical feritlizers and insect preperations.
Organics is a personal choice, based on priciples, and facts one learns as they garden over the years. You may read the horror stories and problems related to using chemicals, and wish to grow organically, to better not only the earth,as a whole or just 'your soil' or you may want to eleminate chemical residues left on vegetables and fruit, from your body, whatever the case.........

Sometimes it is Best for a gardener WHO WISHES to try going organic, to use a Mixture of these techniques until they have achieved an organic "enviroment' Why you ask? Several reasons, i will give a scenario:

Lets say you have gardened, using chemical additives, for a few years,
You have killed off, some of the arsenal of allies that an organic gardener depends on.....Soil Micro-organisms and beneficial insects.
Now if you were to decide... (this year, I will Garden Organically) and rely 'soley' on organic techniques...you would ,Lack these 'allies' and most likely...Fail Miserably
So In the Coming Topics, I will give 3 types of approahes to gardening, Organic, Chemical and Biological,
Biological techniques are very useful for those either 'trying' for organic, or those "on The Fence" Pholks, who don't want to use the Most deadly chemicals/ammendments, but need something to help out in their specific situation. As Always, post any questions, and if you are unclear, by all means, either P.M. Me, or email me and I will do ANYTHING POSSIBLE to Get Ya, Up And GROWING 2head

[jeanette]

this will be the sixth season with this garden, in a former life this spot had pigs on it for about 20yrs, and then 20yrs after just grass, ANYHOO so far my garden is totally organic, that's just because i haven't seen the need to fertilize until this year, and if i didn't have any weeds to pull what would i do out there all day? i didn't get around to putting down any fertilizer last fall. my garden is 3500 sqft, i do everything by hand. so to make a long story into a mini seris..... what should i use?

[Pharmer Phil]

A soil test is always a good Idea! You can purchase a inexpensive test kit at most garden stores, and this will tell you where your nutrient levels stand. You can also contact your Local County Extension office, and obtain a test sample envelope and send it in, cost varies from state to state, and often county to county, I will say probably about 15 bucks.
That Old barn you mentioned jeanette, any animal 'goodies' left behind?? I had a chance a few years back to clean out a barn that had housed horses, it had been about 15 years since there were actually animals in it , we took a tiller into the stalls and worked up some TRUE GARDEN GOLD!!!
I would, in Lieu of a soil test, add a few,maybe four inches of well rotted manure, some compost if available and work it in well, BEWARE, of Municipal Compost Sites, SOME,Not ALL, do Not follow good practices and it is Possible to get compost that is not completely digested, and may contain weed killers and other chemicals from peoples lawns.
and about those weeds, Some Pholks are just Plain O.C.D.
when it comes to them! Let some Live!!! Some weeds are a sign of a healthy soil and They bring up certain trace elements with their deep roots, that are unaccesible to the our shallow rooted garden plants, Pull the weeds that are getting "TOO FRIENDLY" mulch over the rest, leave a few for reminders that your soil is a healthy,living enviroment! 2head

[seadog]

In my experience healthy soil with lots of natural organisms grows healthy plants with less disease and pests. year after year I watch my neighbor struggle with garden problems that I don't have only 50 yards away.
As far as fert. what's free and plentiful in your area?
I have good access to alfalfa hay. Its got good nitrogen content and the worms love it. Most any hay is good if its not carrying weeds that you don't want.
Manure is good' but again careful of what weeds you may bring in. You can kill some of those with a hot compost pile.
My garden isn't bothered too bad with weeds cuz I'm real careful of what I bring in.
Because of the large organic orchards here we have access to reasonably priced organic amendments and you could order these as well. The little boxes of stuff they sell at the local hardware or feed store are way too expensive.

"the best fertilizer is the gardener's footsteps".... Confucious

[Pharmer Phil]

"the best fertilizer is the gardener's footsteps".... Confucious

Excellent

[jeanette]

i can't really use compost from my farm, for one thing i have several black walnut trees (bad bad) plus i am really much to lazy to have a compost pile.. i pull all, ok ok most of my weeds. what i do is when the weeds are really really small i just rake the whole darn thing with the hard rake. the hardest part is early in the spring when you are all out of shape and your plants are small. lots more ground to cover then.. it really really helps though.

[Pharmer Phil]

jeanette, Below is my early season, Organic Weed Control

You can get models that use the smaller propane cylinders! :flamthrower: :flamthrower: :flamthrower: :flamthrower:

[jeanette]

ok i guess i'm a little thick this morning, are you burning your weeds.... i gotta hear about this...

[Pharmer Phil]

Yes, Those pesky weeds in the spring, or between the rows, before you till, whenever, Just can't get carried away, it will, make your weeding later in the year, a small chore and you will have extra time to camp or :4171:

[Pharmer Phil]

Oh and I might add...Ya don't Have to Burn em' down to the DIRT just a moderately slow pass over them....The unit (minus the tank) cost 20 bucks, and I am not sure what the smaller unit costs! Oh and OF COURSE Layra LUV'S It!! :flamthrower:

[jeanette]

oh i can rig something up with the stuff i have around here.. what a good idea... not sure if i'm going to till or not this year, i don't always, we disc it down in the fall always.....

[theresa]

hubby just got one of those things last fall and loves it, me too less weeds I have to pull.

[Pharmer Phil]

They are a very useful tool! Thumb

[squashnut]

This is the second year for one of my beds.( 5x 46 feet ) It was lawn. I added 1 pick up load of manure and 1 pick up load grass clippings. ( small ranger pick up) It still did not do well last year.
I grew some heavy feeders on it corn and squash. which may have been my mistake.
I am adding a 3 inch layer of mixed leaves and partially finished compost today. I would also like to put a light amount of 16-16-16 fertilizer and some lime, but i am not sure how much of each. I have also put some ashes from our wood furnace on it, during the winter.
I am aiming towards organics on this bed, so I would want to ween the bed of chemicals slowly while still getting some production from it. Any suggestions appreciated. I am thinking that I would like to grow either cabbage family or corn and squash there again. The soil is not very deep so root crops are not in the picture.

[seadog]

If you are converting to organic why not just start organic? I use a product called biogrow which is 7-7-2. There are many simular products. In the growing season I supplement with foliar sprays that are based on fish and kelp for trace minerals. I get my stuff from Peaceful Valley farm and garden supply www.grow organic.com but you probably have something local.
As far as the root crops, unless you are dealing with serious hardpan you can double dig that bed and grow anything you want.

[Tanya]

Phil said:

jeanette, Below is my early season, Organic Weed Control

You can get models that use the smaller propane cylinders!

What's that gizmo on the tank called? I'd like to get one. I HATE PULLING WEEDS!!!! :3angry1:

[Tanya]

Helllooooo....

Anybody know what that torch thing is called?

[Pharmer Phil]

Tanya, I purchased mine at Harbor freight, I just went there and the price is the same...19.99

They also sell models that will attach to the smaller tanks of fuel.
here is the link to the site, in the left hand column, there is a Keyword search, type in Torch, , the top one is the one in the picture above!
Happy :flamthrower:

www.harborfreight.com/

[Tanya]

Muchos gracias!!!

My husband LOVES Harbor Frieght. It won't be hard to make him take me there! Thumb

[Tanya]

Just wanted to say thanks, Phil. I went to Harbor Freight last night and got my torch. Also thanks to you for sending me the link, where I looked it up and printed it off to take with me. It was on sale on the website for $24.99, but regular price ($39.99) at the store, but since I had the print out they matched the sale price!!

Now if it would just stop raining so I could try the thing out!

[Pharmer Phil]

You Are Very welcome Tanya...You must have purchased the one with the self-ignitor? Mine...well Ya just have to be Quick..with a Bic!
Show Us a pic of your Fire Spittin' Stick!

[Strongtower]

I did not have a garden space till 3 years ago. Started out with about 100 bags of leaves. Went all over town grabbing bagged leaves.! Then they trimmed all my dern trees, so I asked for the chips. This was dumped on the leaves.

Also put in coffee ground, chicken poop, potatoe peelings etc. Long story short, this year it was beautiful. Soft, fluffy, formed in my hand, easily worked, and it was BLACK !!!! I was so pleased....

I got worried that my plants wouldn't make and put some Miricale Grow on it !!! Am I killing off any little buddies I might have in there??

I am trying to stay organic but ....I panicked !!! It grew pretty good last year, nothing great but ok. And I have put 3 more scoops of mulch on it this spring.

That is the only thing that I have used that was not..."natural"

[Pharmer Phil]

I got worried that my plants wouldn't make and put some Miricale Grow on it !!! Am I killing off any little buddies I might have in there??

Not with one application, but Yes, over time you will undo, all the hard work you put into the making of your Beautiful, rich soil...Soon, today possibly, I am adding a very good plan of attack for keeping the plants fed, while your Lil Buddies work in your soil... 2head

[Songbird]

really??
I've been putting m-gro on my rose bush right along...


what would be the natural alternative for roses? Do they need blood meal and epsom salts??

....those I have.

[charger]

My introduction to gardening was at an early age. My parents gave me a couple options. 1.) Take care of the garden every summer. 2.) Don't eat.

I'm about 275lbs today. As you might imagine, I didn't go too long without eating.

I'm not saying dad was cheap, but he wouldn't give a nickel to see a mosquito eat a bale of hay. We didn't buy much fertilizer for a garden that fed a family of 6.

Since then, I've always kept a garden. My wife (with the help of her mother) LOVE to can what I grow. I still love to eat. I HATE spending money at the grocery store. (On a side note, Isn't it strange how we "become" our parents at some point?) I still don't use much (if any) "store bought" fertilizers.

There's always been this on-going arguement about cow vs. horse fertilizer. Growing up, we had all the "cow" fertilizer we needed. Today, I still have enough of the same. No sense in thrashing out which is better, when I have one and not the other.

OK, on to the recipe portion of my post. I have (at any time) three compost piles in progress. One is "this years crop". (Each pile is in a bin, made from concrete blocks. They hold approx. 10 cu. yards each) I add a loader bucket full of cow manure every few weeks. Also, we put all the kitchen scraps/coffee grounds/lawn waste in the bin. On occasion, I'll throw in a few bags of potting soil/peat moss/vermiculite/top soil/ect from busted bags, sold to me at reduced price, from a local hardware store. I usually toss in a few straw bales each summer. Every 3 months, I throw in 25 lbs of 34-0-0 (Ammonium nitrate) fertilizer. That's the only "store bought" fertilizer used. The nitrates help break down the rest of the mix. I avoid throwing in a great deal of the plant "left-overs" from the garden itself. (That was after a 3 or 4 year battle with Tomato Blight).

Pile two is "last years crop". It sits and rots for at least one year.

Pile #3 is from 2 years ago. It's well rotted, and ready for use. We use it in flower beds during the spring and summer. In the fall, whatever is left gets spread on the garden, then plowed under. That usually ammounts to roughly half of the "crop".

When we moved a few months back, I moved all of my compost too. I consider it such a valuable commodity, I sure wasn't leaving it behind. (Move was only a few miles. Friend has a dump truck. I have a loader. No biggy)

Point is? Use what you have, or what is the most readily available. Just because you can't get what you consider the best, good is still better than not at all.

I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch. Just a cheap-o with a productive garden.

[Deleted]

I thought I was the only one in the world that would bring compost when moving!
Glad to know i'm not alone!

[Compost Pharmer]

charger -- very glad and pleased, have a very big smile on my face, that you are organic. I have learned that it is the only way to be. It is so much better for us and the environment. My wife thought I was crazy when I moved my compost bins and and the compost. She wanted me to leave it, and start over building new compost. But I said 'no way' Down here in Texas we call it 'black gold'. When you fertilize your garden, you don't feed the plants, but rather you feed the soil. The little bugs digest the compost and make it so the plants can easily feed on it. Also another thing I learned is to foliar feed your plants with compost tea. Sometimes I will folair feed two times a week. With in 30 minutes I can see a big improvement in them. Sometines I swear, as I am walking away from the garden, I hear the plants thanking me for the delicious snack of compost tea.

[charger]

One small note. I omitted a crucial step in my "natural fertilizer" chain of events.

When you add compost, even well rotted compost, it effects the soil PH. For years, I battled with PH levels and AG lime. For the last 15 years, I've managed to balance PH levels with wood ash. When I add the 4 or 5 cu. yards of compost to the garden every fall, I follow with eight or ten 5 gallon buckets of wood ash over the course of the winter. (spread evenly over the entire garden, then tilled in) I make fine adjustments after a soil PH test in the spring. I usually need to add just a touch more ash in the spring. (Soils are VERY acidic here)

Mother nature provided the most ideal soil for growing plants without any help from us for thousands of years. The best of the best was usually found on the floor of a woodland area. Years of decaying plant material, along with an occasional forest fire took care of Ms. Natures soil ammendments.

I was taught "stewardship of the land" by my father. I learned to co-operate with nature, using what we're given, rather than forcing the issue with man-made products. That might not produce single-year record crops, but over the long haul, it works out for the better.

[Compost Pharmer]

Amen to that. Very well said charger. Thank you.

[freyaulfr]

I am new here and was just reading this post. Wait till I tell my fiancee about the flame thrower!! He'll get one for sure! This is a great thread thanx!