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Post by jack on Mar 10, 2013 1:57:23 GMT -6
Gidday
Straw bale Gardening
Here is a brief history of straw bale gardening as I understand it. I first heard of it in the 1980's when I was promoting Sabbatical Fallow at our National Agriculture Fieldays. Some young Jewish people from Israel were fascinated with the Sabbatical Fallow that I was doing and my reasons for doing it, and that's another long story too.
Well these young people told me about straw bale gardening and showed me some literature about how and why it was done in Israel. When the new nation of Israel was first established in 1949, there was almost no agriculture industry there at all, only large tracts of desert. They had thousands of people flocking into the country and no way of feeding them so had to figure out a way to kick-start the production of food.
Out in desert or arid areas where that could get some water, they lay the bales of straw down in rows, on a plastic film. The plastic was to conserve the precious supply of water to stop it just soaking down into the dry soils. It also meant that they could plant in the same area every year without breaking their Sabbatical Fallow traditions whereby the soil had to be rested every seventh year, as the plants weren't actually growing in the soil but on the top of the plastic, killing two birds with one stone.
The method that is used is the bales are soaked with water then high nitrogen manure or fertilizer is applied. The high nitrogen and the water assists the bacteria break down of the straw and this process causes the straw to heat up which also sterilises the straw and kills any seeds that are in it.
As soon as the straw has cooled down you can plant directly into the bales. Seeds can be just sprinkled on top then rubbed into the straw so that they are covered, or small plants planted into hole poked into it. I use a crow bar to drive holes right through the bales and push my spuds as deep down as I can.
This is really easy care organic gardening because your plants grow really healthily and there are little or no weeds and the only care after planting is keeping it watered.
Spuds come out really clean and after a little rub look like look like they have just been washed. Carrots, I have found, have one fault and that is they are so crisp that they sometimes shatter when cut but are a beautiful flavour and very sweet.
At the time I heard this, I was living in the North Island where there is very little or no grain grown so that the availability and price of bales of straw meant that it was just something to remember. However I have since found that extremely good results can be got from bales of lucerne or what you call alfalfa I believe.
Another real advantage of straw bale gardening is that it does not matter how poor you soil is, or even if you have no soil at all, you can start your garden anywhere. You should be able to get at least a couple of crops out of a batch of bales and then you are left with a beautiful free flowing compost to dig into you soil or just scatter it as a base for your next batch of bales.
If you have a really small or even no back yard at all you still can have a vege garden on a slab of concrete because it just don’t matter what’s under it, like those Jews still grew vegies on plastic out in a desert. Therefore if you are only living in a pensioner flat there must be enough room for a few carrots or cabbages.
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Post by mogarden on Mar 10, 2013 7:32:35 GMT -6
Interesting Jack. Thanks for posting.
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Post by Pharmer Phil on Mar 10, 2013 7:33:52 GMT -6
Jack that is very interesting how they soaked the bales and set them on plastic...and they were still letting their soils go fallow..great Idea..and I'm so glad to hear that in some regions/states and countries...A bale of hay, or straw...is so pristine.. Brother, I wish things were as easy here... Jack, that's why everywhere you go on the web...You see Us Americans fighting for NO GMO, ORGANIC Crops..NO HERBICIDES/PESTICIDES...... And the newest, and best trend/weapon we have is.. BUY LOCAL/KNOW YOUR FARMER/GARDENERScenario: You buy a head of cauliflower at the supermarket... That single head was raised in a field of 1000 acres (give or take) What is the likelihood that the crop it came from was raised organically.. Answer: ZERO You buy a head of cauliflower at a local Farmers Market/CSA/Farm stand, etc.You KNOW this man, and most likely his family.., He raises a hundred heads of cauliflower..You Know his HERBICIDE..is a HOE.. His Pesticide..Is his hands (worm pickin)..and IF, by chance he needs a pesticide.. He goes for the safest NATURAL/BOTANICAL pesticide..Labeled for Organic production No COMMERCIALLY RAISED crops here are spared...not even grains or forage crops are spared.. In the USA last year ...2,269.12 (million) bushels were raised ..Of that, a very small percentage is chemical free..very small.. That is why Jack, You should PRAY for Your American friends..Believe me, Most of Us are quite envious..And in summary of My comments ..I must say..That is why..a seemingly "neutral" bale of straw..can kill a good crop of veggies..(and I do remember the EXCELLENT CARROTS you showed once..produced from a bale)
Pholks they were beauties..and Jack reported that they were so crisp they snapped!!
I have listed the herbicides labeled ..and unfortunately USED..here in the states for small grain production.. Believe me Bro, it does my heart good to know some places refrain from chemical additives..I'd be there in a second if I could... Herbicides Used in Oat Production Herbicides Used In Wheat and Barley
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Post by Compost Pharmer on Mar 10, 2013 10:58:39 GMT -6
Phil. Thanks for the very informative post. Just wish this country was not governed by big business. Monsanto... you listening?  ? WE DON'T WANT YOUR CRAP. We don't need it, it is all bad for us!!!!! I envy other countries that have restricted GMO products and a lot of the chemicals that we, in the USA, have to put up with. Yes, you may say. 'don't use them, but when a field is planted with GMO corn, and the neighboring field is planted with NON GMO corn, the pollen drifts across the property lines and contaminates the 'GOOD' corn. Why can't we go back to farming the way our ancestors did per, Work War II? Thanks to companies like this, our disease rate for cancer, and other diseases, are sky rocketing. They are killing us, all for the 'All Mighty Dollar'. The roundup, that is put into the DNA is not working. The weeds are becoming immune to it, so more has to be spread. Once in the DNA, this no turning back. If you have a chance, watch 'A Chemical Reaction'. It is how one doctor in Canada fought and made a change. Penny, you may have heard about this. Very interesting and informative. "http://www.pfzmedia.com/#/images/stories/screen/small/HomeDepot3.jpg" |
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Post by BestoFour on Mar 11, 2013 20:16:10 GMT -6
does the heating up of the bales to sterilize them help with getting rid of the herbicide effect?
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Post by Compost Pharmer on Mar 12, 2013 17:32:35 GMT -6
Jack, Thanks for the very informative post. I learned something.
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Post by kansasterri on Mar 15, 2013 15:17:39 GMT -6
This year I had 2 bales of straw (unusual), and rather than wasting them I have sprinkled both with fertilizer, let them get rained on, and then sprinkled both with carrot seeds!
I do not grow carrots as much as I used to, because I am no longer any good at digging them, and because it is an effort to get up and down from the ground. A melon is well worth getting down on the ground for, but not a carrot!!!!!!!!
I can reach the top of the bales without bending my knees, and I am hopefull of a very good harvest!
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Post by BestoFour on Mar 15, 2013 17:06:16 GMT -6
I've got my bales out and fertilized. I've going to fertilize and water again tomorrow, water every day, and then plant squash next Friday. Will be interesting to see how things go.
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Post by jack on Mar 16, 2013 1:59:47 GMT -6
Gidday
Fill, that list of chemicals is rally frightening.
With the straw bale gardening the thing to remember is that the fertlizer to use must be nitrogen to feed the bacteria otherwise it will not heat up and sterilize it. It is bbest to use an organic manuure the is high nitrogen like pig or chook poop but the horrible urea or amonium sulphate if it has to be.
After reading what Fill has said I would be very wary about using straw over there unless I knew exactly what had been put on it. But of course if you can get access to lucerne hay what I believe you may call alphalpha, then I believe that you will be failly safe cos it is just so suseptical to chemical damage like any legume, I don't believe that there will be any chemical residues.
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Post by jerseycub on Mar 16, 2013 6:30:22 GMT -6
Gidday Fill, that list of chemicals is rally frightening. With the straw bale gardening the thing to remember is that the fertlizer to use must be nitrogen to feed the bacteria otherwise it will not heat up and sterilize it. It is bbest to use an organic manuure the is high nitrogen like pig or chook poop but the horrible urea or amonium sulphate if it has to be. After reading what Fill has said I would be very wary about using straw over there unless I knew exactly what had been put on it. But of course if you can get access to lucerne hay what I believe you may call alphalpha, then I believe that you will be failly safe cos it is just so suseptical to chemical damage like any legume, I don't believe that there will be any chemical residues. Hey Jack: Just read your information provided here, and find it quite interesting, some good stuff. I do believe Straw is much different from alfalfa in consistency. Would that make any difference in the growing of plants? On the dairy farm that I worked on as a young sprout, we would bail hay combined with Clover,Timothy,and Alfalfa. I remember if it was at all damp it would mildew, and that is why we had a bail dryer on the farm. I also remember pure Alfalfa is very green and rich hay quite expensive here. What we consider a hot hay for horses. In this part of the country Rye is used for straw, heavy shafts very dry and dusty....some times.But that is what we consider straw. And straw and Hay ain't the same. Just askin. dtb  |
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Post by jack on Mar 17, 2013 3:18:42 GMT -6
Gidday
Yes hay and straw are very different. This is how I see it. Straw is the residue after a cerial or grass crop has had it's seeds or grain harvested. In other words, the entire plant above the ground with the exception of the seed.
Hay is a grass or legume like clover or alphalpha that has been dried for long term storage. The most common hay that I know of is what we down here called meadow hay which if normally just mixed species pasture but sometimes a specialist hay grown like clover or alphalpha which is really excellent fodder for livestock.
Now I believe that aplphalpha hay is normally havested before it seeds so it is absolutely perfect for hay/straw bale gardening where as normal hays are chock full of seeds, and any seed in any garden that you don't want is a weed no matter how good a pasture it comes from and if on the outside of the bale it does not get hot enough you could turm what should be a weed free garden into a weedy mess. Believe me, I know cos I have been there and done that. So, straw and alphalpha hay are both weed free and yes alphalpha is normally too expensive. But if you can get some that is rain damaged do not hesitate in grabbing it.
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Post by jerseycub on Mar 17, 2013 8:21:51 GMT -6
So Jack what I gather from your explanation a mildew bail is good to use...am I understanding you right? When growing crop plants in these bails,Straw or alfalfa you have said that the rotting or composting process furnishes enough nutrient for that crop to prosper, or do you have to feed the plants as you would normally when they are set out in the field.
Do you have to add any soil to the bails?
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Post by jack on Mar 17, 2013 23:53:17 GMT -6
Gidday
I have used bales that were several years old and also bales that had gotten wet before being taken to the barn, some quite mildewy too.
I have never added anything in the way apart from the fertilizer or manure to start the composting and it is important that it is high nitrogen, then have had up to three crops of different veges from them.
However, with veges with very small seeds I have just sprinkled the seeds on the bales, rubbed them in a bit with my hand the added a very thin layer of soil just to cover the seeds. Just remember though, the plants are up off the ground level so they need quite regular watering, and thats about all you need to do too.
Having said all that, and knowing how deficiencies can cause big problems with health from food that looks healthy so it would be a good idea to add some miner nutrients and trace elements for your personal health, but I believe it is not needed to grow nice looking veges.
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Post by jerseycub on Mar 18, 2013 6:46:23 GMT -6
Gidday I have used bales that were several years old and also bales that had gotten wet before being taken to the barn, some quite mildewy too. I have never added anything in the way apart from the fertilizer or manure to start the composting and it is important that it is high nitrogen, then have had up to three crops of different veges from them. However, with veges with very small seeds I have just sprinkled the seeds on the bales, rubbed them in a bit with my hand the added a very thin layer of soil just to cover the seeds. Just remember though, the plants are up off the ground level so they need quite regular watering, and thats about all you need to do too. Having said all that, and knowing how deficiencies can cause big problems with health from food that looks healthy so it would be a good idea to add some miner nutrients and trace elements for your personal health, but I believe it is not needed to grow nice looking veges. If I can get around to it this season, I'm going to give it a go....just as an experiment, I'm very curious on how that will work. Think Ill try beets or turnips. |
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Post by BestoFour on Mar 18, 2013 9:07:49 GMT -6
Johnny brought home 14 bales of straw he got from one of his customers, I scooped out holes (sort of) in the tops, added nitrogen which I watered in well, then yesterday I added 13-13-13 and watered it in, and in a day or two I'll add some more. I got these instructions from a website. I figure the crop won't be any worse than the one the squash bugs got last year.
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Post by jack on Mar 19, 2013 2:28:50 GMT -6
Gidday
I have normally just tipped the maure or fert on the top then watered it in. Pig or chook poop are best as far as I believe. But straight N like urea or similar gives a very fast hot composting.
Root crops come out clean and carrots come come out really clean and crisp, often so crisp you caint cut them without them shattering. Beautiful to eat raw.
With spuds, I drive a crow bar in as far as possible and wiggle it arround then stick a spud as far down as I can.
I am sorry but I have no idea what 13-13-13 is unless it is the N.P.K. rating of a fertilizer.
I have grown very successfully:-
Brassicas
Carrots
Beetroot
Spuds
Just remember, don't over water and don't let it dry out.
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Post by BestoFour on Mar 19, 2013 5:55:06 GMT -6
Yes, 13-13-13 is NPK. I couldn't find 10-10-10.
Thanks for the advice. Only time will tell.
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Post by jerseycub on Mar 19, 2013 11:02:34 GMT -6
Yes, 13-13-13 is NPK. I couldn't find 10-10-10. Thanks for the advice. Only time will tell. There is some products out there that are organic that are used to heat up compost, I do believe Johnnies sells it. That might be better then a chemical NPK, or Chicken poop would be plenty hot to create the composting action. Ya may want to wait a little after using chicken poop though.....especially if you are planting direct, ya know let the poop settle into the bail first. Just my non professional suggestion.  Jack what do you say? bow |
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Post by jack on Mar 20, 2013 1:33:40 GMT -6
Gidday
If you have a commercial product that is redily available at not too high a cost that is organic for heating up compost, I say go for it.
I only wish we had such a product available here.
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Post by mogarden on Mar 20, 2013 7:07:08 GMT -6
If I was looking to speed up compost-making cheaply, I'd try collecting some of the "duff" or broken-down leaves from last year and previous years, from most any patch of woods or even woody fence rows. This material is full of bacteria and fungi that are already in the business of breaking down fresh organic waste.
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Post by Compost Pharmer on Mar 20, 2013 16:20:48 GMT -6
I have been using coffee grounds to heat up my compost. Seems to work the best for me.  |
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Post by w8in4dave on Mar 23, 2013 6:17:27 GMT -6
Really? Coffe grounds heat up compost?? I didn't know that!! Good thing to know! Thanks!
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Post by jerseycub on Mar 23, 2013 10:13:33 GMT -6
I have been using coffee grounds to heat up my compost. Seems to work the best for me. Worms like coffee grounds too, Ruth and I drink a lot of coffee and tea, we recycle all of our coffee grounds and tea leaves. The plants love tea leaves and coffee grounds now and then. and the compost thrives with it, between that and egg shells you get a potent mix. |
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Post by BestoFour on Mar 23, 2013 19:40:09 GMT -6
I put most kitchen scraps in my compost. We don't drink coffee so I don't have grounds but I do have egg shells and tea bags.
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Post by jerseycub on Mar 24, 2013 8:30:41 GMT -6
I put most kitchen scraps in my compost. We don't drink coffee so I don't have grounds but I do have egg shells and tea bags. There is lots of Nitrogen in tea leaves, make sure you crush up your egg shells they will brake down easier. There is a product called Compost Plus that will treat 500-750-Lbs of compost for $7,49 for 2# box at Gardeners Edge If you are interested. |
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Post by Compost Pharmer on Mar 24, 2013 9:34:04 GMT -6
Coffee grounds are high in nitrogen, which is one of the four ingredients required for compost. Egg shells provide the calcium needed by the plants. If you are interested in the coffee grounds for compost, talk to your StarBucks. They give away the grounds, It keeps them out of the land fills and provides the nitrogen needed to build that all important compost, or as I call it, "Black Gold".  |
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Post by jerseycub on Mar 24, 2013 10:21:53 GMT -6
Coffee grounds are high in nitrogen, which is one of the four ingredients required for compost. Egg shells provide the calcium needed by the plants. If you are interested in the coffee grounds for compost, talk to your StarBucks. They give away the grounds, It keeps them out of the land fills and provides the nitrogen needed to build that all important compost, or as I call it, "Black Gold". Hadn't thought of that, we also have a Dunkin Donuts close to us maybe they would give us there coffee grounds. Good Suggestion CP |
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Post by BestoFour on Mar 24, 2013 20:26:06 GMT -6
I'll have to talk to Starbucks. Thanks.
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Post by w8in4dave on Mar 25, 2013 11:01:05 GMT -6
Wow great idea!!
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Post by BestoFour on Apr 9, 2013 20:22:30 GMT -6
The straw bale squash has sprouted in 6 of the 14 bales. Got my fingers crossed.
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? WE DON'T WANT YOUR CRAP. We don't need it, it is all bad for us!!!!! I envy other countries that have restricted GMO products and a lot of the chemicals that we, in the USA, have to put up with. Yes, you may say. 'don't use them, but when a field is planted with GMO corn, and the neighboring field is planted with NON GMO corn, the pollen drifts across the property lines and contaminates the 'GOOD' corn. Why can't we go back to farming the way our ancestors did per, Work War II?
Jack what do you say? bow 
