Fireplace Ashes

[Compost Pharmer]

Does anyone know how much fireplace ashes I can safely spread on my garden without destroying the organic soil? I have a 5 gallon bucket of ashes I have been collecting the last 3 days. The remainder I will apply to my compost bins and let them compost for a year before applying to the gardens.

[jerseycub]

CP I don't know that I would put ashes directly to my soil as you are suggesting, as a mater of fact I don't like to use ashes at all but do on occasion.

My answer would be. Not directly to the soil, and at a low rate in the compost. Good compost is a C/N ratio of 30:1 and sawdust is a 500:1 ratio and depending on the wood that you are burning that could be even higher.

[ChileFarmer]

CP, here is a link that might help you. CF
organicgardens.suite101.com/article.cfm/ashes_in_the_organic_garden

[Compost Pharmer]

Thanks CF. Guess I now have a place to stash the ashes (garden). I am going to just put a thin layer over the garden plot.

[Deleted]

Don't know about ashes on the garden, but when i was very small we only heated with coal......we dumped all the ashes over the hill behind the house....well, some Tommy Toe maters got thrown in there......i know for a fact that they came back ever year for over 30 years and were the best ya ever tasted .....i guess they like ashes

[Compost Pharmer]

Thanks caveman. I was afraid it would screw up the ph balance of my garden. Since it is raining today, I think I will sneak out side and sprinkle some on the soil.

[jack]

Gidday

Well that was very inmteresting. I have always believed that you should never put coal ash onto gardens apart from on paths.

But I have always put my wood ash onto the garden. We also burn all our bones in the fire so there is a portion of bone going onto the garden at the same time.

[mogarden]

Yup, there's a lot of good minerals in bones but only available to the plants after you burn them to white ash. A 5 gallon bucket of wood ash is about the amount I'd put on one bed, maybe 3X10 feet. You don't need to ash the same spots every year tho. That amount would last for 2-3 years. I spread them in the fall and winter and turn it all under in spring to plant, no problems so far. The soil here is acidic if you don't lime (or ash) it.

[jerseycub]

I have read the posts here on using wood ashes in the garden, and without trying to offend anyone I would like to say use them with caution, as one article says they are rich in potash and will sweeten the soil, this may be true but they need to go threw a process of erosion or composting to have a positive effect on the soil and only if it is necessary. Keep in mind that we burn many different species of wood and they have different chemical properties when they are broken down in the burning process therefore have different chemical properties.

Coal has the same chemical properties when burned the only difference being sulfur content between hard and soft coal, many years ago we also used coal to heat our home and would spread the ashes in our driveway to keep it stable, but my father would on occasion spread some ashes on his garden, I was just a young boy at the time and never gave it much thought, but I would suppose that it would help to raise the PH in the soil since it was a very clay soil were we lived at that time.

We burn wood to heat our home and accumulate quite a bit of ashes every season, and we do add some to the compost every year just to give it some verity of materials to try and keep a carbon ratio of 30:1

[rivervalleymama]

Maybe a good place for anyone interested or curious to start would be googling BIOCHAR.
I'm still learning of course but I do know some local people here that are in the process of making a documentary about it. I guess there have been areas in south america where the natives farmed that shows huge layers of biochar and the result is outstanding- something insane like 800 fold. Worth checking out.

[rivervalleymama]

Oh! And it is important to only apply wood ash when you're ready to work it into the soil as it is not solulable and is caustic.

[jerseycub]

This is a subject that should probably be discussed under soil building but any way.

There is something that we all need to consider when making compost or amending our soil, and that is ratio. there are many components to our soil as I'm sure lots of the folks here all ready know. However we tend to forget certain aspects of gardening sometimes. One is testing the soil annually for nutrient deficiency so we know exactly what supplements are needed.

To much of one thing or the other is as bad as not enough, not to make a mountain out of a mole hill but is is important to keep these simple rules in mind.

I for one have learned a lot over the years about soil amendments trying one thing or the other just on a articles recommendation just to find out later that it really doesn't work, probably because of my soil conditions being different. My opinion is Testing the soil is the most important thing we can do as gardeners or farmers before adding any amendments.

The other thing is when making compost try to keep a good ratio of materials so as to have a good combination of carbon and nitrogen as well as the other balance of organics.

[rivervalleymama]

I'm doing some more searching around for info, I have an email to a friend but in the meantime, I've been trying different google searches. Here are some helpful (I hope) links:
www.breathingplanet.net/node/236
www.woodash.net/chart.html
biochar.pbworks.com/
www.emmitsburg.net/gardens/articles/frederick/2004/ashes.htm
www.motherearthnews.com/Ask-Our-Experts/Organic-Gardening/Wood-Ash-Fertilizer.aspx
One thing that seems to be consistant when it comes to applying the wood ash directly to the garden is to apply no more than about a 5 gallon pail full per 1000ft.

[Compost Pharmer]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and info. I have been reading about 'Biochar' and it seems to be the best to add to the garden, over the ashes. The problem I have found with soil tests is they tell you what you have and not what you need. I would rather know what I need to add, to the soil, then what the soil is currently composed of. Each fall, after cleaning up the garden, I till in a compost bin of compost, along with other amendments. So far it is worked pretty well. With each tilling I am able to till a little deeper. Sooner or later I will be able to grow long straight carrots. This will the forth year in this plot, so I have a few years left before the soil is as close to perfect as I can get it.

[jack]

Gidday

Yeah it sure takes time to develope the soil you want Eh!

We are only in our second year on a hard clay, but I can see the improvements already.

[Pharmer Phil]

CP, I have never kmown any facility to take a soil test, and NOT make "recommendations" based on the testing..I know the UofM tests do, and I just looked up T A^M and they do also.

Now you can get from the University here, most any test, not all are included on the standard test, which may be the case in all locations..
But if You go here: T.A.M. EXTENSION

then scroll down to this
Lawn and Garden Recommendations

It would appear they do the same as U of M...
if not, heck send it to me, I'll get it tested at the U.

Biochar, the verdict is still out on, even the "breakthrough" specialists state that there are many drawbacks at this stage with Biochar.



But Pholks, A minute here...
No matter what you use, you first need to know Where your garden needs "It" and what "it" should be...
So If, your County extension souil testing doesn't make reccomendations, ask your county agent WHY you did not get the reccomendations...because You been shorted...the whole idea behind the testing is to POINT you in the right direction with your amendments.

Test your soil at home..

Old Timers tasted their soil...

For 10-20 bux; at any garden store, you can get a simple meter that works well enough to work off of, I have one.

However you MUST make sure you follow the testing instructions exactly.
Most the time it reads 7 folks say...
well, not here...
and if there's any doubt...
TEST IT on a substance with a KNOWN Ph
stick the prongs into a little vinegar, orange juice or lemon juice..
it should drop like a rock...then, still curious...stick it in a jar of ammonia...
it should climb to above 10

beyond that, there's another HOME TEST...and this can be checked against your meter too...
Plain old pHydrion (litmus paper)

Here's the procedure:
"Materials / Equipment Needed:
1) A soil sample (about 1 tablespoon will do);
2) pHydrion test paper
3) Distilled water
4) a plastic cup
5) measuring spoons (1 tablespoon) Do not use this spoon for food preparation.
6) wristwatch
7) pencil / pen and notepad

To do the soil pH test:
Step 1. Put about 1 tablespoon of soil in a clean container.

Step 2. Add distilled water and stir until the sample is as thick as a milkshake.

Step 3. Let it stand for 1 hour. Check it periodically and add water if needed.

Step 4. Put a piece of test paper in the solution. Leave it in for about 1 minute.

Step 5. Take the test strip out and rinse it with distilled water.

Step 6. Match the color of the test strip to the standard color chart that came with the test paper. Keep a record of your test results."

DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE..of thinking that compost you made is SO perfect!!
it may be, but not for all your favorite crops
most of the compost we make and add is Neutral to slightly alkaline.
But not all, and we add this in massive amounts, we also add leaves, straw and other components...
so, although we think that we are OK, with a soils Ph, and we get good results...
You MAY be missing out on GREAT RESULTS...

Our potato crop last year for example...
I tested the area where we were planning potatoes..
.
7.0...a little high, but would still grow potatoes

Potatoes do best anywhere from 5.0 to 5.2

We added sulphur (flowers of sulfur) @ 3 pounds per 100 sq. ft.
Results, Ph 5.0

and ya'll seen pics of our tators last season...

And if you don't have access to a testing facility (folks every county has an extension service), can't purchase a tester, or litmus paper, you can do the most rudimentary test of all, the...

Worm test:
Be sure the soil has warmed to at least 55 degrees, and that it is at least somewhat moist, but not soaking wet.
Dig a hole one foot across and one foot deep. Place the soil on a tarp or piece of cardboard.
Sift through the soil with your hands as you place it back into the hole, counting the earthworms as you go.

If you find at least ten worms, your soil is in pretty good shape. Less than that indicates that there may not be enough organic matter in your soil to support a healthy worm population, or that your soil is too acidic or alkaline.

ADDING ANYTHING BEFORE TESTING ...
GUESSING
or ASSUMING your Ph is correct....
won't keep you from having a good garden...
But, why not shoot for GREATNESS

[jerseycub]

Again Phil makes a good point, as I said testing the soil, there are many test kits available, one source is Gemplers they have a vast amount of testing kits and probes from a few dollars to as much as $500.00 what ever you want to spend. I for one use my county agent which is Rutgers University, but I also have a two pronged tester that I use from time to time just to spot check, and can be purchased for $25.00.

The best thing we all can do as gardeners and farmers is take soil samples in different areas of the garden and have them tested but keep a log of were the samples were taken and # the samples.

[rivervalleymama]

Great info- I like the worm test!
Phil- as I said, I'm still learning. If you have a good source of info on biochar, please share!

[Pharmer Phil]

Coulee, The rate of coverage for wood ash you posted is correct, again tho folks, this is a guideline ONLY and adding wood ash or lime without a soil test is NOT recommended.

Wood ash; unlike limestone, (which can take six months or more to take effect), has high water solubility and quickly changes the soil pH. Too many ashes in the same area will raise the soil pH over the optimum level of 6.5 to 7.0

remember these two thangs:
Plants growing in alkaline soil are less able to absorb phosphorus, iron, and manganese.
Plants growing in acidic soil are less able to absorb nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium.

As for the Biochar, Barb, we are all still learning about it.

[mogarden]

My comments on adding a lot of ash pertains to "new ground" (cleared woods) such as I have had at a couple different places.

[rivervalleymama]

I guess I just assumed, by your comment, that you had material to read that I hadn't seen yet.
I understand now, that biochar and woodash can be two different topics. If anyone is interested in a thread on biochar, I'm sure the posts can be moved, I'm just going to share the latest links I've found here for now.
www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/index.html

www.biochar-international.org/research/education

www.geos.ed.ac.uk/sccs/biochar