How does your garden grow.

[charger]

Got a question. Let me set the mood for it.

In our area, 95% of the farms now use exclusively no-till for grain crops. I've even seen a few tobacco farmers going that direction. Even before no-till caught on 20 or 25 years ago, there was a move away from plowing ground every year.

Now we get to the garden question.

In past years, I've tried NOT plowing the garden in the spring (or fall) I've met with mixed success. Since we moved , I HAVE to plow this year. I'm turning under a heavy growth of sod. My question is, how many of you have your gardens plowed each season? I'm not asking about tilling. I'm talking "Old fashioned moldboard plowing".

What do you see as advantages? DISadvantages? When do you plow (if you do)? Fall? Spring?

We have clay based soil. At the new place, it's better soil AND sub-soil than where we came from. Deeper, richer soil.

[jeanette]

we us no-til farming practices for our soybeans and just light tilage.. chisel plow... for corn, some times i till my garden and some times not. i don't have a tiller so if i can get the tiller guy out and the weather is right some years i do, i always disc it down in the fall, except on the end where my perennial herbs are and my onions.

[Talks With Beagles]

The farmers who use no-till methods have a special seeder called a "no-till drill". They also use herbacides to keep the weeds down. With clay soil, I doubt that you will be able to pull weeds by hand most of the time.

The reason that people are going ot no-till methods is that, after years of plowing, the sub-soil develops a "plow pan", which is like hard pan. Also, if your soil is subject to erosion the less you stir it up the better.

I think that the rotto tiller gives you the best of both worlds. The only think you have to watch out for is that you don't over till. One or two passes is usually enough unless you are breaking sod. Then you want to alternate between a north-south pass and an east-west pass until it becomes easy.

[kabuti]

Hi as I understand it the act of plowing may result in producing a compact layer of soil below the depthe of the plow. We have this problem here, this land had always been farmed. With No-till the soil is still being run over by heavy machinery. I would imagine using work horses wouldn't pack it quite so bad. Usually after the moldboard the disc harrow & spike or springtooth are necessary to break up clods & create a seedbed.

[hillsidedigger]

Since you ask

on my limited gardening operation, I neither plow nor till,

but rather form each planting row, ridge, furrow, hill, etc. with hand tools, hoe and weed by hand, walk between the rows frequently which keeps down growth, spread a thick layer of tree leaves between the rows and occasionally use a lawnmower between the rows must be careful not to blow lawn mower clippings on green beans and some other crops, bad things will happen..

As somewhat stated, large farming operations using no-till generally employ great volumes of herbicides.

[jeanette]

better living through chemistry...

[charger]

talkswithbeagles said:

The farmers who use no-till methods have a special seeder called a "no-till drill". They also use herbacides to keep the weeds down. With clay soil, I doubt that you will be able to pull weeds by hand most of the time.

The reason that people are going ot no-till methods is that, after years of plowing, the sub-soil develops a "plow pan", which is like hard pan. Also, if your soil is subject to erosion the less you stir it up the better.

I think that the rotto tiller gives you the best of both worlds. The only think you have to watch out for is that you don't over till. One or two passes is usually enough unless you are breaking sod. Then you want to alternate between a north-south pass and an east-west pass until it becomes easy.

I grew up on a farm. We live in an area that's been all no-till for nearly 40 years now. We used a Deere 750 (15') no till drill and a Deere 7000 (6 row X 30") corn planter. Prior to going no till in the early 1980's Dad chisel plowed the place for about 10 years. That shattered the plow pan.

Our garden is another story. Our ground seems to respond well to breaking it up. We've seen soil structure improve in the fields by leaving them un plowed. The garden seems to do better by "mixing" it with a plow. I have a tiller for the back of my tractor and a smaller Troy-Bilt for cultivating. We tried a few garden crops in the past using no till methods, and won't be doing that again any time soon.

I grow about a half acre of sweet corn, and several other "garden crops" that end up getting sold. Al together, we usually have around 1 acre of garden.

[charger]

kabuti said:

Hi as I understand it the act of plowing may result in producing a compact layer of soil below the depthe of the plow. We have this problem here, this land had always been farmed. With No-till the soil is still being run over by heavy machinery. I would imagine using work horses wouldn't pack it quite so bad. Usually after the moldboard the disc harrow & spike or springtooth are necessary to break up clods & create a seedbed.

Actually, horses (ANY livestock) will pack ground like no tractor ever could. Just try to disc up an old horse pasture sometime. They pack it like granite.

[kabuti]

Charger, of course, horses pack the soil. I wasn't going to tell anyone that though.

[crazy1]

most farmers who no-till also use a ripper which has steel shanks that go down and break-up the "hard pan". By doing this here in SW Michigan corn bushels per acre have gone up about 50-60 bu more. The secret to ripping is to let the plants get thier roots down to all those good nutreints that have been locked up for soooooo many years. Also drainage is better and plants can hold out longer in a drought, because they can get deep moisture from the soil.

[Pharmer Phil]

Crazy, is this the same as Zone tillage?

[digger48]

Every couple a years I borrow the neighbors tractor and chisel plow. Especially after we had a wet growing season. Seems this old horse and his mate can pack the ground pretty well just getting in to harvest crops. Not saying we are heavy or not. But crops tend to dry out after chieseling. Then the next year they are usually pretty good. We have a horse tiller and a Mantis I picked up on a city junk day. Didn't run , but a new carberator kit and it ran fine. Small enough that the wife can handle it. Lot easier in flower beds than the horse.

[crazy1]

Yes, the "ripper" is also called a zone builder.

[jeanette]

phil i think zone tillage is deeper than chisel or rip plowing, the tillage goes down to right about the root zone... I THINK.

[crazy1]

Jeanette,
You are right. Zone builders "rippers" go down anywhere from 18"- 23". They are now makeing one that will go upto 27".
Zone tillage should be done every 2 - 3 yrs, if you've ever seen "root pits" you could see the difference in root structure.
In a root pit you dig up an area of a feild which has not been ripped, then after 2 yrs intensive zone building you dig up an adjoining area.
If I can find the site I'll post it.
in conventional tillage your roots reach 12-18" at the max. In zone building your roots can reach down upto 6'.
hope this explains it.

[jeanette]

hey i must be catching on to this farming stuff

well you throw enough... never mind

[TennOC]

Another factor in no-till is the fuel savings.