How to apply compost??

[peachfly]

This is my first year to have compost for my garden--got 3 bins in various stages of completion. This a.m. I sifted half dz forkfuls and applied it to the base of half dz vege plants. What I sifted out was some leaves and pine straw (pine needles for those of you not from rural ga.) This took about 45 min (and left me tired and hot).

So, my questions are:

1. Can I eliminate the sifting step? At what point do the soil microbes or whatever quit doing good things for my plants and work on decomposing the unfinished compost? Does this question make any sense??

2. Can I compost just around my plants or do I need to spread it over the whole bed? I have 2 beds--8'x10' and raised 4x8 and if I spread the compost completely over the beds, it will be a very thin layer.

3. If I can just compost around each plant, how much compost should I use? For example, 2 inches deep and as far out as the leaves are growing. In that case, what about vining plants?

DH wants his lunch, so I guess this is all for now. Once winter arrives (Jan & half of Feb in this area), I'll read through all the gardening threads, but for now if someone could HELP I'd be gratefully appreciative.
Peaches

[oh2fly]

I don't sift mine anymore. I let the red worms break it down for free. They are happy to do it, too. It depends on how much compost you have and how big your garden is as far as spreading it. If you have enough, put at least an inch and a half around the plants. Same goes for vining plants. Maybe a 2 foot circle around the base of them. Hope that helps. You could be generous with some of the plants and then compost the others next time you have some or give a little to all.

[Pharmer Phil]

OK, well for #1......
What you are sifting out is rocks, sticks, and unfinished, or half finished compost.
and of course, possibly weed seeds, and harmful pathogens, contained in the unfinished components

I recomend not using unfinshed compost as a plant additive, as it tends to cause niitrogen draft, where the decomposing materials "Rob" your plants of nitrogen, causing a deficit.
Also, these half finished components will heat up, causing some microbial death.

In summary, Yes, you could eliminate the screening, provided you were going to use the compost as a mulch.

2. 1st. let the compost finish totally, then I add the compost to the area to be worked. How much? how much Ya got? I don't believe there can be too much compost!

Hey Compost Pharmer...bro, is there such a thang?

Lets say 4 -6 inches over the entire surface for starters...Till it into the soil 6-12" deep. Using compost which has fully matured will reduce any problems from weed seeds, pathogens and nitrogen robbing' from your crops roots by the decomposing material.

3. for individual plants outside in your garden, I add a scientific amount: 3 handfuls to each hole.
or work the same amount into the soil as you mentioned around each planting...

Then of course, there's always Compost Tea, which IMO is not only the best way to add a quick pick me up to your plants, but one of the best defenses against disease and other problems.

Hope you have a great time playing with yer Garden Gold...I know I do

[peachfly]

Thanks 2fly and Phil for the comments. They are a big help. It will probably be a day in before my plots see 4-6 inches of compost overall, but I'll keep working on it.

'preciate your sharing your knowledge.

P

[Compost Pharmer]

I feel you can never have to much compost. I till in a bin full each fall after the garden is finished. My bins are 4 X 4 X 4 and not completely finished. It seems to completely break down over winter. When I till in the spring I don't see anything that I recognize, except for the worms. My garden is about 24' X 24' The compost is starting to break down the black clay. A few more years and it will be completely broken down. When I planted this year, I put a thin layer down over the entire garden.
My poor garden looks terrible, do to all the rain we have been having. I think my pepper plants have all did. I have only picked one cuc and one small mater so far. If it is nice 2-morrow, I'll take some pics and post

[peachfly]

Compost Pharmer,
Thanks for the idea. I think that's what I'll do late fall or thereabouts. Take the two bins that are in process divide them between my 2 plots & till under. Last year I planted a cover crop, but this seems like it will be easier and just as effective. I don't have a full size tiller and turning under the crop was a pain. It still hasn't all broken down. I had planned to try and keep some cool weather crops growning throughout the winter but I need another raised bed so maybe I can get it going and put them in it. Oh for a couple of more hours in the day or maybe just a stronger back. Good luck with your garden. We've had a droght, drout, dro--no rain-- for years it seems like here in ga, so the that is drownding (sp?) you is giving me my first good garden in years. I've got 10 tomato plants going if they just don't bit the dust because of wilt.
Peaches

[crazy1]

Well I'd let that tilled in cover crop sit for a few mos. You are in Southern GA right? Well your season is wayyyyy longer than us northern yankees.
So let it do it's thing in the ground and start a fall/winter garden then.
Just a thought, but sounds good to me.

Hey Greg, sorry to hear you're flooded out this year. It's hell and brimstone sometimes huh.

[oh2fly]

phil, I am not too worried about weed seeds or pathogens from my coarse compost. The temp hits 150 in the tumbler for several days and that is good enough for me. It sure looks purty if I screen it, but I am conserving labor to maximize my gardening time. There are always as many ways to garden as there are gardeners. That's what is cool about it.

[peachfly]

I don't put weeds in my compost--just leaves, kitchen scraps, and garden/non-weed yard scraps. I don't use grass clippings because I can't break DH of his efforts to decrease the local fire ant population and--even tho the front yard is his and the backyard is supposed to be mine and poison free--I have occasionally caught him with his ant killer (we need a skull and crossbones smilie) hovering over a backyard ant hill.

Don't have a tumbler and my pile never gets hot that I know of. I dump stuff in probably about three times a week and and toss with the pitchfork about once a week. Read somewhere once--probably in a gardening magazine or on the web--about there being some merit to cold composting--doesn't kill off the microbes or something like that--so I quit worrying about mine never getting hot. Just takes longer. However, after reading some of the other threads, I've put molasses on my shopping list. Maybe that will help. And I'm thinking about biting the bullet and asking Santa for a chipper/shredder for Christmas. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it is worth the money? We take a lot of branches, etc. to the local dump which I guess could be shredded and added to the compost piles.

P

[oh2fly]

when my shredder is working, I love it. Right now the belt is slipping and it is a pita to deal with it. Look around, they show up used sometimes. Sure gives extra material for the compost that breaks down faster.

[jack]

Gidday

Well I am definately not a Northern Yankee, but a Southern Kiwi.

I don't think about organic gardening but think of it as natural gardening cos I am plumb sure I caint do better than the Good Lord can. And besides, I am a lazy old sod as well. So I look at how He set things up. Take a look at your long grass prairies, or the great rain forests. Look how many hundreds of tons of growth on them per year without anyones help. And yet when men com along and try to farm them it don't take too long before they are having to add all sorts of stuff to get things to grow. Cut down a rain forest and it can only be farmed for at the most ten years before the soil is all tuckered out.

Both the above rely on compost, tons of the stuff. It is not turned or tilled in either and no sweat is spilt getting it to work, and that's the way I like things.

Now me and old Phil disagree on this and I am not wanting an arguement but to just make my point. And don't get me wrong, compost is great stuff, and compost tea is about the best thing man can do as well. But nature don't make compost in one place then try to shift it and dig it into another place.

I say, you are better to throw your stuff straight onto the garden and let what the Good Lord made, do the work for you. Decomposition on the surface of the soil will not reduce nitrogen available to the plants, it's only if you till it in and then every bit is surounded by soil that it will drag nitrogen out, and then only for a short time before it releases even more. Decomposing plant material on the surface of the soil has only one molecule thickness in contact with the soil and those little soil bourne livestock of yours that do the work aint great travellers so they will just concentrate on the one thing at a time, like decomposing that stuff for you. In doing that they will have a bit of flatulence, in the form of carbon dioxide, but that stuff is heavier than air so it will stay down there in the litter on the soil. Then when it rains, or you water the garden the CO2 will disolve in the water and become carbonic acid and slowly move down into the soil.

Carbonic acid is one of the best things you can get to disolve the non organic mineral particles in your soil, and in doing that they will make available the whole range of trace elliments and minerals that your plants, and you need. So by composting on your garden amoungst your plants you not only get all the goodness you can from compost, but also the full range of minerals from your soil that were not otherwise available to your plants, providing your plants are growing there at the time, otherwise the carbonic acid and those vital netrients will just keep on movin down through the soil till they are out of reach of your plant roots.

I know that aint a tidy way of gardening, but is nature very tidy all the time?

[Pharmer Phil]

I am not in difference to applying your scraps, or composting on your soil surface, that is sheet composting, and I do that. I do not do it during the garden season, not that I mind a mess, but It would be like throwin out the welcome mat for bugs, animals of all sorts.
Don't you have a insect/vermin problem doing that?
What I disagreed with, and oppose is adding uncomposted manure to your garden.
Aside from the pathogen dangers..
I have seen it happen, and I would like to know how you do it without burning your plants, possibly you have a secret to share?

[peachfly]

interesting comments Jack...need to spend some time digesting the info on carbonic acid. sounds something like a book i'm reading on permaculture. haven't read much yet, but the author seems to recommend working with nature rather than against it. i believe the guys who started it came from your part of the world.

[oh2fly]

I agree, this thread is getting interesting. I too need to look up carbonic acid. Worst thing to come out of this would be we are all better composters. Better thing, we all become better gardeners and still stay friends.

[jack]

Gidday

Yep permaculture sounds good but they seem to be making lots of rules and the only rules I like to use are those of nature itself. One thing with permaculture is the mixed species planting and aint that what nature is all about?

And yes, there are a lot of strange people down this way with very strange ideas, and a lot of those ideas actually work.

[oh2fly]

Hey Jack, no one mentioned strange from what I recall. Interesting was mentioned a couple times. I for one am keeping an open mind about different ways to garden, so please don't stop sharing your ideas. What is happening in your garden at this time of year?

[jack]

Gidday

Strange, of course we are strange.
Which means:- Out of the ordinary; unusual or striking. Differing from the normal.
All of which apply.

Well my garden has taken a hiding this year. The coldest December on record which was the middle of 5 months of bellow average temperatures. Then my cow got in the garden which didn't help much and now we are hopefully coming out of a cold winter. For a month up till Tuesday our garden was frozen about 3 inches in. But still eating a few things out of it, especially the carrots.

As this is the first year we have been milking our own house cow, milk for the house that is cos I don't sleep with the cow in our bed, I have been taking wheel barrows full of cow poop into the garden. I will be growing most of my brassicas straight through it, but because us strange Kiwi do such a thing I am not suggesting you try.

The big difference, I figure, between us here and you up there, is that we don't have any genetically modified cows or crops and we don't have animal on low dose antibiotics for any period of time so many of the bugs we do have are probably not as virulent or dangerous as yours might be. And also I believe that many of us have a stronger imine system as well.