Lets debate "GMO"

[Pharmer Phil]

Pholks, I believe if you look DEEP into my posts here, I had said some Good words about GMO crops, not all, but in reference to Bt being added to the corn.
My way of thinking, at least then was:
I'd rather have GMO corn, next to me, than like the neighbors, Having aerial Bombardments from planes, flying right over head, well, I still don't want the planes even near, BUT.
At the time, the gmo was fairly limited to Bt, and at the time, I had not seen a major drop in the Monarch Butterfly population.
The monarchs gather by the thousands in the Huge maple trees here, just before they head south for the winter.
There were not but about a hundred last year
I am now concerned.
Then, I get things all the time emailed and PM'ed to me, but this, Needs to be brought up to at least think about, and take into consideration.
I still am not against the Bt corn, and still believe it beats planes flying over the fields, not but a mere few FEET from me, But some of the things the chemical companies are toying with now, and some of he motives they are using, has thrown up some flags for me.
So, Lets have a Debate over where everybody thinks this is going.
I would hope, and enjoy for some of the members, or their family members,who either are familiar with, Or Use these products,To Join in, Knowledge about this is easily clouded, one way or another by groups on each side of the fence. So All Views will be properly represented if we have more than a couple members opinions. As I am partially embarrassed to admit, I am not current with the GMO arena, and will really appreciate hearing it all

A note from a Phriend

Hi Pharmerphil,

I wanted to warn you about a people who are pretending to be gardeners but are Representatives of Monsanto and the GMO industry.

My daughter had a company contact her and told her that she would be paid $18 per hour to post on BB's and forums.

Recently, I noticed a strange post on **** from Eric J. Lorenz.
His only post was a pro-GMO post claiming that GMO's do not cross-pollinate with plants. He referred to them as self-pollinating.

I was suspicious and googled "Eric J. Lorenz." He is president of ABC Laboratories and a member of the American Chemical Society, a front group for Dupont and Monsanto.
He was also has an outstanding warrant for his arrest for the worst ecological disaster in Paraguayan history, called the "seeds of death." When he was the American Representative of a company called Delta & Pine, he dumped 660 tons of cotton seeds contaminated with agritoxins out of a plane on a school in the small rural town Rincon, Paraguay.

I have already informed ***** about what I found but I thought you might want to be on alert for this man posting on your phorum.
If you would like confirmation google "Eric J. Lorenz". All of the information will come up.

[TennOC]

Well, let's see....I think before we can really debate GMOs, a clear definition might be in order. People have been "modifying" plants genetically for all this time thru selection and crossing, but usually GMO is taken to mean those plants that have had genes inserted by artificial means, not thru pollination with other strains or thru natural mutation. I'm not saying that's a clear definition, I'm saying I think we should agree on which plants we're talking about when we say GMO. As far as outstanding warrants from Paraguay....I don't wanna get into that debate. Anyone can post under almost any name, anywhere. Personally, I haven't used the BT corn (that I know of) but I use BT here at home in the powder form, love it.

[jeanette]

Bt-corn is a type of genetically modified organism, termed GMO. A GMO is a plant or animal that has been genetically modified through the addition of a small amount of genetic material from other organisms through molecular techniques. Currently, the GMOs on the market today have been given genetic traits to provide protection from pests, tolerance to pesticides, or improve its quality. Examples of GMO field crops include Bt-potatoes, Bt-corn, Bt-sweet corn, Roundup Ready soybeans, Roundup Ready Corn, and Liberty Link corn.

Genetically modified foods are foods derived from GMO crops. For example, corn produced through biotechnology is being used in many familiar foods, including corn meal and tortilla chips. In addition, corn is used to make high fructose corn syrup, which is used as a sweetener in many foods such as soft drinks and baked goods. While the FDA (U.S. Food and Drug Administration) regulates genetically modified foods, it considers Bt-corn to be nutritionally equivalent to traditional corn.

To transform a plant into a GMO plant, the gene that produces a genetic trait of interest is identified and separated from the rest of the genetic material from a donor organism. Most organisms have thousands of genes, a single gene represents only a tiny fraction of the total genetic makeup of an organism.

A donor organism may be a bacterium, fungus or even another plant. In the case of Bt corn, the donor organism is a naturally occurring soil bacterium, Bacillus thuringiensis, and the gene of interest produces a protein that kills Lepidoptera larvae, in particular, European corn borer. This protein is called the Bt delta endotoxin. Growers use Bt corn as an alternative to spraying insecticides for control of European and southwestern corn borer.

Bt Delta Endotoxin
The Bt delta endotoxin was selected because it is highly effective at controlling Lepidoptera larvae, caterpillars. It is during the larval stage when most of the damage by European corn borer occurs. The protein is very selective, generally not harming insects in other orders (such as beetles, flies, bees and wasps). For this reason, GMOs that have the Bt gene are compatible with biological control programs because they harm insect predators and parasitoids much less than broad-spectrum insecticides. The Bt endotoxin is considered safe for humans, other mammals, fish, birds, and the environment because of its selectivity. Bt has been available as a commercial microbial insecticide since the 1960s and is sold under many trade names. These products have an excellent safety record and can be used on many crops until the day of harvest.

To kill a susceptible insect, a part of the plant that contains the Bt protein (not all parts of the plant necessarily contain the protein in equal concentrations) must be ingested. Within minutes, the protein binds to the gut wall and the insect stops feeding. Within hours, the gut wall breaks down and normal gut bacteria invade the body cavity. The insect dies of septicaemia as bacteria multiply in the blood. Even among Lepidoptera larvae, species differ in sensitivity to the Bt protein.

Genetic Modification
Do Bt-corn hybrids differ only in that they possess the genetic code to produce the Bt protein? Not exactly. To add a trait to a crop plant, the gene must be inserted along with some additional genetic material. This additional genetic material includes a promoter sequence that, in part, determines how the new trait is expressed in the plant. For example, the promoter may cause to protein to be expressed in certain parts of the plants or only during a particular period of time. There is a marker gene that allows plant breeders to easily determine which plants have been transformed. Herbicide and antibiotic tolerance promoters are commonly used to identify transformed plants. There may also be a plasmid or vector sequence that allows for rapid multiplication of the gene of interest in a bacterial host prior to insertion in the crop plant.

FDA Approval
Federal food law requires premarket approval for food additives, whether or not they are the products of biotechnology. FDA treats substances added to food products through recombinant DNA techniques as food additives if they are significantly different in structure, function or amount than substances currently found in food.

However, if a new food product developed through biotechnology does not contain substances that are significantly different from those already in the diet, it does not require premarket approval. Products that are genetically engineered to provide pesticide traits, such as resistance to the corn borer, are also subject to regulation by the Environmental Protection Agency. Currently, genetically modified foods in the United States do not require special labeling to notify consumers.

[crazy1]

When using BT corn you must also plant "refuge" for the insects to eat-devour. The reason being that you can destroy a species of insect which is obviosly part of an eco-system.
As for GMO's they change these genes like you change your drawers.
One seed companymy dad buys from has a Round Up Ready bean that always outperformed any other he planted. Then ne year the yeild went bust. Dad told the seed dealer NO MORE of that number. Well the next year the dealer said they changed the enes back to what they used to use. Well, dad bought more and the yield was back to normal.
If you have ever seen a seed farms experimental greenhouses you would beamazed at the amout of plants they are testing the genes in. It's incredable!!!
I try to only grow oppen pollenated seeds to keep the true plant the way it was intended.
When you buy GMO seeds at a bulk you have to sign legal documents that you will not save seeds to replant. If you do and they find out, which they will, by comparison of your yearly seed purcheses. They then fine you big time and you will not be able to buy their products anymore. This has happened in our county.
I belive that GMOs will run their corse then they will be faded out. I belive the powers that be will run out of funding because farmers will not be able to afford the seed anymore. The problem will be ,will there be anyone besides seed savers who have seeds that are not modified? Kind of a scary thought.
As to labeling products containing GMOs most things do, all of the beef, pork, chicken, and any other type of meat are feed GMO grain for the most part
And many commercialy grown veggies are the same, they are GMOs to some extent

[jeanette]

we have been planting round-up ready beans for years..
the numbers of the seed indicate which seeds are the fastest to mature, or resistant to alkili in the soil, more drought, or moisture resistant...etc



round-up ready beans and BT corn are two very different things....

[crazy1]

Sorry if I seemed to class BT corn and RR beans in the same class. Dads been planting RR beans since they came out. But they are both GMOs.
And I do understand seed numbers.
Never ment to start an arguement.
My family has farmed for over 100yrs, I don't know everything, but do know a bit.
Hope there was no harm done. I'll try to be more specific in my posts.
Sorry.

[jeanette]

oh crazy1, i sure didn't want anyone to think i was mad... i never want to get into an angry argument, just a fact finding informative one

i'm sure i know less than you about such things.. we got a century farm too, but i've only been here about 7 years, i grew up on a farm, but everything is alot different then than it is now....

i guess if you sensed anger in my post it is towards the people that think we are going to turn into a one-eyed cyclops if we use GMOs
please every one i don't ever want to argue with you guys.... thanks for calling me on it crazy1 i will try and control my self

[crazy1]

Hey as long as we're all cool its all good. I am new here and don't want to come across wrong. I just voice what I think I know. LOL.
I have a short life time experiance, 37yrs, but I have learned alot from all of the older than me people I learn from. Many of these are 65 or older. The old guys like me. I like to learn.
So I hope all is well

[jeanette]

you know that is really where the best learning expeirences come from.... from people who have already been through it, they know what works, what don't. and just how to get the most out of everything...
and they know what it's like to really work hard...

gosh please don't think i was mad.. i'm one of the most un mad people you'll ever meet.. it's hard to commuicate with just the written word

[crazy1]

That is sooo true. The written word doesn't always sound right..LOL. Well, we'll just keep learning together.

[jeanette]

good plan crazy1!! good plan

[crazy1]

Hey,you guys(girls) are phreinds. Happy V day