Who wants cloned beef!!!

[crazy1]

Well pholks our illustrious and intelligent (said with much sarcasm) has deemed cloned beef, pork, and milk from cloned cows is SAFE for human consumption. Now for the best part IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE LABLED as cloned or a product of a cloned animal.

Now my I'm against it wholeheartedly, and I'd imagine there are many religions that would find this well..... sac religious.

Now trust me I'm not a very religious person, but man is not supposed to make animals the Creator/Higher power has placed them here.
We really can't improve the design of these creatures.
Evolution has done that for us.
Yes everything evolves to an extent. It has to to adapt to changing climates and other phenomenon.
I'm not trying to start a religious debate here, just pointing out my opinion.

But there has to be a way to get our message to the government about our dissatisfaction/rage of this choice.
Now we raise our own beef here, and I know none of the animals have been cloned so I have no worries. But the majority of people don't have any clue where their meat/milk comes from.
This will be one to watch for sure.

[jeanette]

i guess i'm not sure if i'd care if tastes the same...

its still a living cow and still has to eat CORN right?

[bscamo]

C1 , I think this is another example of where certain people believe that they can improve on what God and nature has done.

Not only have many tried and ALL have failed but they usually have managed to make things much worse.

Just how many times have "they" deemed things safe for human use and we find out later that it not only wasn't but also that they did more harm than good ?

[biita]

This is something that we heard about over here, what i'm curious to find out is this, remember the farmers an all the b.s. with the goverment, and ended up losing alot of farms. Now it seems its happening again but in a different sense. What about all the ranchers who raise animals for the market. will they be next in losing their ranches. do they need their own private scientist to do the work instead of a healthy bull, thru artificial insemination.....how is it going to effect them is what i am thinking.

Also can petitions or calls to the state congressmen/women help in at least demanding that a lable is put on the cloned meats. or something like that. getting intouch with your officials. cattle organizations maybe. someone surely can help in this.

I am so glad that fish is the bulk of our food here, an that we catch. I don't think i would want to eat meat that was cloned.

[Pharmer Phil]

Biita, unfortunately, there is at least one company already experimenting with your fresh fish supply, cloning is in your countries future too
you can google:

Blue Biotech in Norway + fish
for more info.
meanwhile, back here in the states, Beef, is big business, and whatever big business wants (read as ...BIG MONEY)
unfortunately...big business gets

as for taking a stand, it has helped very little in the "Irradiated Beef"
arena.
where as irradiated meat sold in the stores is supposed to be labeled as such, it is not required for foods served by restaurants and school lunch programs.

[biita]

I don't know Phil,, i read that article then i went an googled articles in Norwegian, one thing i have found out with google or an search engine is you don't always get the same results in english as you do in the native language of the country your researching on..usually the native language is more detailed an in depth. That article is dealing with medicines that come from fish an shell fish,Norway is one of the top countries that deal with medicines from the sea. there is a plant near us on the next island that does raise fish specifically for that purpose, they use the sea but its all sealed off from the rest of the outter sea. they want to keep the fish in as natural habitate as possiable so they can benifit from the same as if they caught the fish right outta the sea. alot or most of those fish are cloned, but here in norway its illegal to have cloned anything, even sheep for not eating but wool. Only the fish for medicines. if it was put out in the market after it became legal, i can say that the people would either go crazy or just not buy it... but then who knows,, i know it will be labled. the people will demand it.

[crazy1]

biita said:

i know it will be labeled. the people will demand it.

Well biita, they tried that with the "COOL" Country Of Origin Label.
All meat, poultry, fish, anything sold as "fresh" had to have this labeling. Well the BIG BUCKS said that that somehow would hurt their import profits. So they obviously paid donated some big money to a few peoples campaigns or treated them to some time in the islands or something. The label was used for about 2 weeks if that, and then it disappeared from the products. The reason was a review of the law and it's effect on the economy......

[nnbreeder]

C1 COOL has turned into NAIS and as I type this is written into the new farm bill now in front of Congress. The big money is all behind this as the womb-to-tomb producers such as Tyson and Farmland stand to gain new markets and millions of value added profits. It will be just another nail in the coffin for the small producer as the added expense and paperwork will cover them up.

[crazy1]

You are so right about the nail in the coffin nn. I have read through a lot of the new farm bill and it is a very scary thing. Our local Farm Bureau has supplied all members with a copy on request. My dad and I read and discussed the ramifications on the smaller producers. The outlook isn't to bright. But there is still hope. And hope is better than nothing. My dad farms about 1600 acres and it's tuff to just make ends meet with the cost of fuel, seeds, and fertilizer. Not to mention trying to get fair prices for the beef produced on the farm. Dad also runs a cow calf operation with 300 brood cows, Polled Herefords, so 250 calves also have to cover the cost of raising the cattle. They are free range not penned, so the labor is greatly reduced. And the cows are happier too. But the hay and feed sure add up.

[Compost Pharmer]

If the farmer would get 50% of the selling price in the store I would not feel so bad in paying the high prices. After all, if it were not for the farmer, we would not have what we have. Not everyone can grow there own food or raise cattle for meat. I remember growing up. my father would buy a half a beef direct from the farmer. The farmer would buther and wrap the beef. All we had to do was bring boxes and pay the farmer. I personally would rather buy direct from the farmer, that way I know the farmer gets it and not the middle man.

Phil: you need to find us a '' smiley, for times like this.


I know, back to topic. The middle man makes me mad.

[biita]

I agree with you Compost Farmer, that farmers an ranchers are the bread an butter of America. With out them America wouldn't be.

I won't go into what the Norwegian Goverment does to help an support the farmers who crops have failed or the rancher who has lost live stock, that would only be like rubbing salt into an already festering wound in America.

But i will say that what the goverment an big business that is slowly TRYING to snap the backbone of america, disgusts me to no end. I am so lost as far as new organizations and the new regulations that i'm sorry i can't respond to the conversation that way..

But thank goodness there are still those who have not, an will not let the bad guys step all over them an to that i will say,,, Well done!! Keep doin what you do.

[Compost Pharmer]

Please tell us biita. Maybe us, the American public can some how, some way, put pressure on the American government to help out the farmer, especially the small time, family owned and run operation. Everyday more and more family farms are having to go out of business and sell off the land to the large farm operations. This makes me sick, thinking all they have done, over the many years of operation. This was their lively hood to support the family. After all, that is how the big time operations were started.

[nnbreeder]

A really good start would be to get affordable health insurance for the entire family and to be able to get public assistance during the lean years. Most can't even get food stamps due to their assets and have to renew loans just to eat and pay bills.

I would like to see a minimum level that comodities prices could drop too, and I'm talking a floor type of pricing that is used as a starting point for trading. Not the it can only go so high or low that day as it is now.

There are many things that could be done to help the producer that wouldn't cost the public a single penny yet would benifit all.

[biita]

okay i will tell you, first off, this is a democratic socialist country, and the government forbids people to go hungry or have no healthcare, the goverment takes care of all that,, every single person in norway no matter what you have or don't have is never to go with out food or shelter or have the right to healthcare. all that is taken care of by the govenment or different organizations no matter who you are or what you do when times are bad.

the farmers have insurance of their own that they pay for. but in the situation of a bad crop or a few yrs of bad crops due to weather or what have you, what the insurance doesn't cover the government makes up the difference. most farmers or ranchers here have contracts with slaughter houses or grain mills, so what the gov has to pitch in to cover is already known, an they just cut a check an all is done. They also have access to loans at a way cheaper intrest rate because the gov recognises that the farmers are what makes this country tick so to speak. with out them we would have to import everything, then inflation takes over bigtime.

in the case of the ranchers everything is free range here. if a rancher does choose to fence his animals the land is so massive that it just about free range anyways. sheep wander all over this island all summer an long. in fall they hunt their sheep down an bring them home. then the head count starts. for every animal that is missing or dead, the rancher recieves a check for that animal. since its also known because of contracts with a slaughter house, the government knows how much to pay for that missing or dead animal. then the rancher is reimbursed for all his missing or dead animals all in one check. again the government recognises the same as with the farmers that with out them, this country would be in trouble.

[Compost Pharmer]

Sounds like you guys have a government that is truely for the people, unlike here in the USA.

[crazy1]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is one great place.
And we thought we had t good here........ For the most part in this country farmers are considered the lower class. I think it's mostly because people don't really know where their food comes from. It's not the grocery store as most believe. And as to health care, well that's about non-existent unless you're handicapped or unable to work. And at that point it's still VERYlimited to the care you get. This year was an odd year here in the state I live. Crops were really bad and at least the grain mills extended contracts another year. I not most of the farms here would have gone under right away.
Looking into moving now.......Tonya said NO.

oh well I tried.

[biita]

I lived in the states, an i did work for the USDA, in the cotton industry. the AMA, i guess i had too big a mouth because they transfered me to the Dakotas in the beef industry after they trained me ofcourse.. I had such a hard time with all of it, that i ended up losing my job, becaused i refused to go along with what the gov was doing to the farmers an ranchers. when i lost my job, i had insurance for about 3 months then it was gone. i had 2 children, a widow, an the only means of support for my kids. when i went and tried to get help for insurance an food. they told me to sell my truck, sell my home, all the excess bagage i had. the kids money market funds. i was disgusted with the treatment that a person who has paid taxes all the while living there, could be treated like that. and i wasn't the only one who was treated like that, made me relize that the american gov sucked. and was not for the people but for themselves at the cost of the people. sad,,, i love america, an always will. I think to this day it is still one of the greatest countries in the world. but as far as taking care of its own,,, they could look elsewhere for a few lessons.

[crazy1]

I do agree with you on the fact that it is a great country, and the gov does need to learn how to take care of their own. As the economy sits right now, we'll be a third world country in a matter of years. At least that's my humble opinion.
For a country so great in wealth, there should be some more help for the under/un employed.
As inflation and prices go up so should the pay of the people who do all the work.

[ChileFarmer]

I have had some rib eye steak that I would not mind having cloned.
But for real I am not sure how I feel about folks messing with things. Just don't seem right. CF

[biita]

I just read an article on yahoo, about Bush's last State of the Union Address, I read an read,,, and when i got down to the very last paragraph, i couldn't believe what i read. Here is a copy an paste of the last paragraph,, all of you probably already read this or heard his speech,, but i will put the last paragraph here anyways...

Bush will promote the U.S.-backed Middle East peace effort and his administration's efforts to fight disease and hunger, and suggest that the United States fight hunger abroad by buying and distributing crops from developing countries rather than relying on U.S. farmers.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080128/ap_on_go_pr_wh/state_of_union

This is probably the wrong place for this, if so, please move to where ever it needs to be.

Just thought you should know what he is trying to do,, altho most of you already do.

[sammi]

I'm not sure I understand the point of cloning beef. the livestock..whether "real" or cloned..still has to eat and be cared for right?
wouldn't it be more costly to clone then to raise cattle as usual?
maybe I'm missing something here..I just don't get it.

[abirdseyeview]

I think part of their thinking, if I may be so presumptuous, is to replicate the best traits rather than leaving it up to the roll of the dice with genetics. It is kinda like McDonalds ©, same cheeseburger no matter where one is. Same predictable cut of beef, pork, lamb, etc. as with the one cloned from.

[nnbreeder]

The first cloned sheep. Dolly, had very bad health problems by the time she was 2yrs old. All I can remember is arthritis though. Can you imagine a field full of cattle with a bad gene lurking in the pool? The herd would be struck all at once with the flaw and the financial loss would be staggering.

[crazy1]

abirdseyeview said:

I think part of their thinking, if I may be so presumptuous, is to replicate the best traits rather than leaving it up to the roll of the dice with genetics. It is kinda like McDonalds ©, same cheeseburger no matter where one is. Same predictable cut of beef, pork, lamb, etc. as with the one cloned from.

Just to let a know, McDonalds only uses old dairy cows for their beef.
I know a main buyer for them. If it ain't old and almost dead it ain't what they want.

And nn you're quite right, it would be a staggering loss. But those that want this to go on are the major beef producers. So to them it's just a chance they think is worth taking.

[abirdseyeview]

Crazy1 said:

"Just to let a know, McDonalds only uses old dairy cows for their beef.
I know a main buyer for them. If it ain't old and almost dead it ain't what they want.

I'm not surprised to hear that, in fact I think I read that somewhere. That would explain the effect on my digestive system, hard telling what else I'm consuming. There's a thought, I'll start a chain of restauraunts that serves organically grown burgers.

[notherdigger]

I was just reading an article in the new March 08 mens fitness mag, the article titled "a guy"s guide to pork" telling how to cook it right and why is is getting as good as chicken and other "healthy" meats. It said in fact* that
"Before long, you may be able to eat pork instead of salmon to fight heart disease. In trials, scientists have successfully transplanted dna from roundworms and put it into cloned pigs, thereby increasing the levels of healthy omega-3 their meat contains."
You probably aren't surprised to hear this but it reaffirms the real fact that you don't have a clue what you might be eating if it comes from any commercial source unless you grow it yourself or get it from some reliable person with more integrety. Some like exotic foods but I'm not too big on roundworms and other "unusual" foods.

[Pharmer Phil]

notherdigger said:

I was just reading an article in the new March 08 mens fitness mag, the article titled "a guy"s guide to pork" telling how to cook it right and why is is getting as good as chicken and other "healthy" meats. It said in fact* that
"Before long, you may be able to eat pork instead of salmon to fight heart disease. In trials, scientists have successfully transplanted dna from roundworms and put it into cloned pigs, thereby increasing the levels of healthy omega-3 their meat contains."
You probably aren't surprised to hear this but it reaffirms the real fact that you don't have a clue what you might be eating if it comes from any commercial source unless you grow it yourself or get it from some reliable person with more integrety. Some like exotic foods but I'm not too big on roundworms and other "unusual" foods.

I thought dat last pork chop I had tasted phunny