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Post by jokenmar on Feb 9, 2007 23:03:38 GMT -6
For all you mechanics out there, I need help with a problem.
We have a 1986 ford F250 diesel pick up truck. It has an International Motor, 6.9 litre....New Injector pump. It is hard to crank. We replaced glo plugs, fuel filters, 2 new batteries and new starter. It will not crank. Even tried using starter fluid, but won't crank. Motor turns over good, but won't crank. After Katrina, it had been sitting up for a couple of months. We tried cranking it, and it cranked. Run good, but after we killed it, it has not cranked since. We bled the air out of the filter and took an injector out, left it hooked up, turned the motor over and no fuel came out.
Anyone have any idea what might be wrong? Or any suggestions for trying to get it cranked?
It is an old truck, and not worth putting a lot of money in because of the miles. We are too old to rebuild or replace the motor, and can't afford to have it done by someone else. But, when the old man cranks, it runs good for an old truck.
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Post by jack on Feb 10, 2007 1:15:31 GMT -6
Gidday
Have you bled the injectors.
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Post by jokenmar on Feb 10, 2007 10:21:16 GMT -6
Jack: He bled the system up to the injector pump.
Do you think that is what he needs to do?
He has been told that the "International" will bleed themselves.
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Post by jack on Feb 10, 2007 14:31:15 GMT -6
Gidday
I would still bleed them right up to the injectors, like past the pump.
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Post by bscamo on Feb 10, 2007 14:33:05 GMT -6
Have you put fuel dryer and diesel conditioner in and then changed the fuel filters ? Also possible fuel pick up line screen in tank got plugged....or fuel in the tank developed a problem...which would clog the filters again...
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Post by nnbreeder on Feb 10, 2007 16:20:36 GMT -6
Do not open any lines it will bleed itself, I would suspect the fuel pump in the tank or the computer control module under the hood. Plus since it sat for that long check the wiring over carefully for chew marks from mice and rats.
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Post by douglas on Feb 11, 2007 4:31:51 GMT -6
I would invest in one of these for a second opinion, werks from "96" and up and is reliable. Are you getting any codes from your engine light   |
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Post by jack on Feb 11, 2007 13:41:05 GMT -6
Gidday
If you don't open any lines how will you know rthe fuel, without air, is getting to the injectors?
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Post by bscamo on Feb 11, 2007 18:24:25 GMT -6
Iph'n ya ain't got it started yet , let me know.....checked with a diesel mechanic friend of mine......odds are , it's a fuel connected problem....
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Post by nnbreeder on Feb 11, 2007 22:26:00 GMT -6
Jack, the way that the fuel lines are on this engine if you open a line it will suck air. If I remember right the return lines go back to the filter instead of the pump so if you open a line it creates an air bubble at the filter and prevents fuel from flowing to the pump. These engines are really sensitive to air leaks.
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Post by jokenmar on Feb 11, 2007 22:59:22 GMT -6
nnbreeder: We did have a leaking fuel line when we first got the truck and it wouldn't run. We replaced the line and drove it for a couple of years. We replaced the manual fuel pump with an electric fuel pump. Ran it two more years. It started getting hard to crank, ran well one day, and haven't been able to crank it since. It has been 7 or 8 months now.
This engine has no computer controls on the fuel. My husband believes that the return line does go back to the fuel filter. He also tried running a line from a 5 gallon tank of clean fuel to the electric fuel pump to the filter. Never cranked. There is a bleeder on the fuel filter and he got clean fuel out of that and no air. It still failed to crank. He is stumped now, and doesn't know how to trouble shoot from there. So, it just sits.
two years before, when we had the same kind of trouble, we put it in the shop and they put a new injector pump and glo plugs on at a cost of $1,500.00. The old truck isn't even worth that much. It ran good until this last time as I described above. We cannot afford to put it in the shop again.
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Post by jack on Feb 12, 2007 1:50:09 GMT -6
Gidday
Well I guess I am a bit miss understood. But don't worry, that's the story of my life. Poor sod Eh!
Anyway, you only ever try to bleed or crack a fuel line on the presure side not the intake.
Bleed it at that bleeder on the filter first, then at the outlet to the injector pump. Then crack the line just where it goes into the injectors, one at a time, and turn it over and let the fuel out at the injector until there is no more bubbles. Then you do each of the other injectors like that.
If no fuel comes out of the line at the injector or there is any air coming out you will not start the motor unless it is in perfect condition and at that age it won't be.
Can you understand what I mean?
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Post by jokenmar on Feb 12, 2007 7:55:09 GMT -6
Jack: My husband says Yes, he understands exactly what you are saying. He did not do that. He only bled from the bleeder valve on the outlet side of the filter. He will try doing it the way you say.
Thanks ever so much for the info. We will see how this works.
nnbreder: I still look forward to hearing from you, too. We also think it is a problem connected with the fuel.
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Post by bscamo on Feb 12, 2007 11:42:34 GMT -6
Here's 1 idea I don't know if you checked yet. All diesel engines have a fuel shut off valve. If the valve is defective or there is no juice to the valve , fuel will not make it past or to the injectors.
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Post by nnbreeder on Feb 12, 2007 19:57:48 GMT -6
On top of the injectors there are some little plastic fittings that the return lines hook to. Under those fittings there are two o-rings. Usually when I have problems like this I change the o-rings and the plastic fittings plus the return lines, it will suck air without leaking fuel. Very easy to do, just take the injector line off and pop the plastic piece off with a screwdriver or small heel bar, change the o-rings, lightly oil and press the new one on. It's been a while since I've worked on a 6.2 or a 6.9 but I seem to remember a water seperator on the LH side of the firewall kinda low. Most that I've ran across have been bypassed. The bosses 6.9 started sucking air and we finally traced it to that seperator. Check the electrical connections on the pump with a test light with the key on. If nothing is hot check the fuses. Another test is for the glow plugs, You never use ether on an engine equiped with automatic glow plugs The plugs can ignite the fumes in the intake and create havoc and bodily harm. Ok put the test light lead on the POS side of the battery so that whenever it is touched to the body or ground it lights up. Find the glow plugs near the injectors, there will be a single wire on them, unplug the wire and touch the test light to the tip of the plug, if the tester lights the plug is good. if it doesn't the plug is bad. Test all eight the same way, I've found that as few as three bad and the engine won't start. Changing them is easy, just use a deep socket and unscrew them, use some neverseize on the threads of the new plug and screw them back in. Kinda like changing a spark plug. Another tip, please don't do the injector trick again, I don't know about the Binder but a Cat inj. pops at about 2000lbs of pressure and if you are in the way it will blow a tiny hole through you and leave fuel in the wound which rapidly sets in infection and is almost impossible to clean out. So please be careful.
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Post by jokenmar on Feb 13, 2007 9:58:17 GMT -6
OK! I printed all this out for my husband. He is ever so greatful for all the infor you have so freely shared with us. I will keep in touch, and let you know how it is going after he tries a few things.
nnbreeder: I pm'd you.
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An easy challenge seldom yields much gain.....you always harvest more from the difficult ones !